Bring back old working Spaces and Expose

Mission Control is a complete misfire and several steps backwards in design and usability. They took something that was beautifully simple and nearly flawless and turned it into a chaotic mess for no reason.


I was a heavy user of Spaces and Expose and it was easily my favorite OS X feature hands down. Now it's been three days of Lion and I just avoid Mission Control at all costs and find myself switching apps instead, something I would expect from Microsoft, not Apple.


Trying to understand how to use MC without going insane I started simply swithing apps instead of thinking about spaces, and at least that made some sense, but there was still a lot of unnecessary changing of spaces back and forth for no reason. It dawned on me to try something: I killed all Spaces and have a single desktop with every window. You know, like Windows would do. As a testament of what a terrible idea MC is, it works a lot better this way. When you do Expose you can at least understand what you're looking at, and you don't care that the tiny Space thumbnail is being covered up by your windows. There's also no unnecessary shuffling between spaces. It's an obviously cluttered, primitive, step back in sophistication and usability that almost makes me wish I had Vista's Flip 3D, but at least I am not spending half of my time jumping between spaces and hunting down lost windows.


Here's some of the issues with Mission Control:


- It's visually confusing and messy. The application windows usually cover the Spaces thumbnails along the top. What is the point of showing me the Spaces if they're covered up with windows? Isn't that defeating the very point of Mission Control? Why do I need to see my desktop background inset within *another* background in MC? Why are the Windows stacked so tightly and messily? It's impossible to pick the window you want unless you do "App Expose". What is the point of having Spaces previews if they're so tiny you can barely see what it's in them anyway? They used to be nice, clean, large previews. Now it's a stupid mess of tiny thumbnails with drop shadows, text labels, multiple backgrounds, being covered by app windows... ugh.


- The fact that they are now a linear row of spaces along the top is clearly much less user friendly than the old grid method, which was spatially and visualy easy to use and memorize. Now I have to think about numbers for desktops instead of "up" or "down". You know how much easier it is to type numbers on a keypad versus pecking the linear numbers along the top of your keyboard? Same thing. Also, you could go into the old Spaces and accurately hit the Space you want to go to because they were huge, easy to read and remember targets. Now they're tiny, hard to remember and usually hidden under something else.


- It took the advantages of both Spaces and Expose and eliminated them in order to merge them, who knows why. You used to be able to go into Spaces, and then Expose while there to reveal every window, and find *any* open window in seconds. Now it's impossible. You have to shuffle haplessly through spaces and hit expose and hope the window you're looking for shows up, and if that fails, which happens often, then you have to switch to every application and hit app expose. What a mess.


Easy solution: Just bring back the old Spaces and Expose, maybe as an option to MC. Or at least give us the option fo a grid layout and old style Expose. Please. Please. Please.

Mac OS X (10.6.7)

Posted on Jul 23, 2011 12:49 AM

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380 replies

Dec 6, 2011 1:24 AM in response to DaveSpencer

Mission Control honestly just needs one small tweek, expose of current desk, no app bundles until a desk has more than one perhaps -then it would be best of both. the side by side desktop layout is ok .


Actually one more tweak: WrapRound with the swping between desks 🙂


>>"It may well be because they are aiming the systems of today towards something entirely different and Mission Control is just the start. "

-- yes,correct,going further down the Apps route.Apps on phones are a fightback to Browser-based-apps, in response to Google who have taken on desktop OS's by trying to move everything INTO the browser and onto the cloud.


thats not called 'conspiracy', its called 'Adapting your product to the rival product'.

Dec 6, 2011 1:31 AM in response to DaveSpencer

DaveSpencer wrote:


mulligan - You say you hated Spaces so did you actually use it? I am running Snow Leopard on my Macbook and Lion on my iMac and believe me MC is not a step forward IMHO. How do you quickly find everything that is open in each MC window in the same way that you could in Spaces and Expose?

Yes I used Spaces. Seemed pretty buggy to me, so I turned it off after about six or eight months. Expose was ok, I tended to leave a hot corner on for that. Now I can find all the documents I am working on quite easily, no matter how many apps I have open. Learned to get used to the stacked approach and work around quickly. Each to their own of course, but what we have is what we have. And where we are going is where we are going. I'm enjoying the ride. It's not that hard to let go of past features.


Good Luck

Dec 6, 2011 1:35 AM in response to mulligans missus

mulligan - i also run Macs with both operating systems and totally agree with DaveSpencer.


While MC is ok for some use cases, when it comes to doing certain tasks Spaces/Expose is much better. There is no way you could do this with MC...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktTNcj0fAM4


Apple do make course corrections - and will sometimes go back to a past if it turns out that it was better than the future for some users.


There is no reason why we can't have MC/Expose/Spaces as options.


The real question is, can Apple be encouraged to maintain certain features as options into the future so that users who "come-on-board" are not left with a less effective system with future changes. I realise that the argument here is about %'s, however if you keep upsetting a small percentage of your customer base you might soon end up alienating all of them over time.


What do you love about Mac (and/or made you switch to Mac)? What happens if those features are only valued by a small percentage of users and are dropped unnecessarily into the future...

Dec 6, 2011 1:40 AM in response to mulligans missus

mulligans missus wrote:


...It's not that hard to let go of past features.


You have hit the nail on the head - as yet you have not lost a feature you really depend on. With Spaces/Expose there are a number of users who really depend on that feature. The ability of the Apple community to see this in terms of policy, rather than based on individual impact the beter.


Glad to hear that you are enjoying Lion.

Dec 6, 2011 1:51 AM in response to iPotential

iPotential wrote:


mulligan - i also run Macs with both operating systems and totally agree with DaveSpencer.


There is no reason why we can't have MC/Expose/Spaces as options.


Then why were they not implemented in the new system?


Apple do make course corrections - and will sometimes go back to a past if it turns out that it was better than the future for some users.


Just trying to think of one that would be as big a turnaround though.


I realise that the argument here is about %'s, however if you keep upsetting a small percentage of your customer base you might soon end up alienating all of them over time.


They are catering for the needs of the majority buying their products. What are their products aimed at? Mobile computing. iPhones, iPads, iCloud etc. Their sales figures speak for themselves and millions of young people around the world are waiting for the next updated devices. That is why Windows, Google, Samsung, Nokia and co. are following the same path. That is what the consumer wants. It may not be exactly what you and I want, but thats not where the future obviouly lies if we want to be dependant on obsolete features.


What do you love about Mac (and/or made you switch to Mac)? What happens if those features are only valued by a small percentage of users and are dropped unnecessarily into the future...

I have used Macs for about thirteen years and have never had an issue moving along with their system directions. Now third party programs, that's where the key lies. I have been heavily reliant on Adobe and Corel, but I suppose if push came to shove, then I would find an alternative, but they have always come through with the goods.



mulligan - i also run Macs with both operating systems and totally agree with DaveSpencer.


And I respect your opinion. We all have one. They are just not the same. It doesn't mean I am not going to have Mac problems somewhere along the line. None of us are bullet-proof.


Anyhow, we'll never solve it here.


So Happy Computing and I hope things fall into place for you.


Cheers

Dec 15, 2011 6:50 AM in response to tmsnnnz

I couldn't agree more. Special thanks to Stefanos Folios, above, for explaining the problem so clearly and in such a reasonable tone.


As for those who have said, "Just go back to Snow Leopard, haters," I think you're missing the point. A lot of the new features of Lion are great, and we want to be able to take advantage of those -- just not at the expense of losing an elegant workflow tool.


When Spaces first came out, I didn't see how they would be any more useful than Expose, but I gave them a try. I quickly discovered how beautifully designed the new system was, and I ended up using nine Spaces and enjoying a MASSIVE productivity boost. I came to Mission Control with the same attitude: "I don't know how they could possibly improve on Spaces, but I'll test this out. Maybe I'll like it even better."


Unfortunately, I don't like it better. It's a big step backward, for the reasons Stefanos Folios explained so well.


Maybe Apple didn't realize how many people would miss Spaces. It would be great if they could bring back a way to use them. When Spaces came out, Expose didn't disappear -- you just had a new choice. I wish Apple would have done it the same way this time.

Dec 23, 2011 12:53 PM in response to tmsnnnz

The old Spaces grid system allowed me to do things I thought were impossible on a computer. I have been able to write scientific research papers without printing out a single source document to paper. I saved pdf versions of the many source papers. I read them on the computer, highlighting them as needed while adding notes in key spots. I arranged the various papers in different "spaces" in a 3 x 3 grid according to their position on the topic I was discussing. The ability to view these documents in a grid format allowed me to easily navigate between different papers.


The new version of "spaces" makes the above described workflow impossible. Spaces are replaced by desktops, which are only viewable in a linear ribbon. The previews of these desktops are too small to be useful; the contents of these desktop previews do not allow me to see the generalized window layout within the desktop. The desktop previews are indistinguishable from each other when there are more than a few windows. Also gone is the ability (from expose) to reduce the size of all windows within all spaces so I can view all windows at once.


It would seem easy to me to return this functionality as a switchable option. Just add an option to view desktops as a grid. When this option is activated, the mission control option would do as expose used to do and miniaturize the windows, allowing me to drag windows from desktop to desktop. Otherwise, the mission control option would function as always, with a ribbon. Thus, only by turning this option on would anything change.

Jan 11, 2012 1:48 PM in response to leivajewelry

leivajewelry wrote:


I'm truly dissappointed with apple for this oversight and can not imagine how they thought this was an improvement- I can't see anything because it's either so tiny or overlapping!!

PLEASE bring back the old Spaces!!!!!

It's not an oversight, it was changed in Lion. Despite some people not liking it, well get used to it. People are still moaning about changes from Leopard to Snow Leopard if you look at those forums. A new OS will never please everybody, which is why Apple inform you of the changes on the download sight so you can make an informed decision of wether you need to upgrade or not. You all chose to update, now you can choose to return, hopefully from backups made just for such a purpose. UI elements will never please everyone. A lot love and use Dashboard. For other like me, it's cumbersome eye candy. Whereas I use Mission Control all the time and prefer it's ease of use over spaces. That's the life in Computing for ya!


Good Luck

Jan 11, 2012 3:13 PM in response to mulligans missus

Most of your post, I agree with, there is, however, one sentence in which I totally disagree. This is no where near an argument of any kind and I'm typing on a new Macbook Pro. The best Macbook Pro that I've ever used...



"You all chose to update, now you can choose to return, hopefully from backups made just for such a purpose. "



This is so incorrect, for my particular Macbook Pro. The choice to upgrade to Lion from Snow Leopard was not my choice.


The updates Apple sent to my macbook pro prepared the computer for the new Operating System. With every update they recommended, software, OS speed, etcetera, began disrupting and disabling third-party applications, such as Adobe Creative Suites. With my first Macbook Pro, a late 15" 2008 model, the updates and configuration files that Apple sent to that laptop made that laptop unstable, especially when Lion was released. Apple prepared the laptop so well that Snow Leopard conflicted with itself and degraded the quality of work I was able to conduct on that machine. There was no choice for that machine's OS. Apple forced the new OS and I finally had to give in and upgrade to Lion, on that machine.


I did not apply certain updates on a new iMac 27 running Snow Leopard and it is great. The 2008 Macbook Pro was replaced with a brand new Macbook Pro with the new OS already installed.


For the iMac 27, I'm waiting for major OS updates before I DECIDE to upgrade. The only reason I have the ability to Choose the new OS is because I am not installing certain updates, which can leave that machine vulnerable in the future as I'm sure they won't support it anylonger.


I just had to share this, maybe someone out there is on the fence about the updates that are being sent to them. If you are staying with a Pre-Lion OS, don't install updates that "make it easier for one OS to communicate with another OS"...


The calendar system is screwy, now that the Cloud system is in place, however, that's another topic.


With Peace ! and the common admiration for the Apple universe.

Jan 11, 2012 3:32 PM in response to VoilaMagic

VoilaMagic wrote:


Most of your post, I agree with, there is, however, one sentence in which I totally disagree. This is no where near an argument of any kind and I'm typing on a new Macbook Pro. The best Macbook Pro that I've ever used...



"You all chose to update, now you can choose to return, hopefully from backups made just for such a purpose. "



This is so incorrect, for my particular Macbook Pro. The choice to upgrade to Lion from Snow Leopard was not my choice.



I know what you are saying, and agree with the point that if you buy a new Mac, you will have Lion installed on it and cannot revert to Snow Leopard. If you are used to Snow Leopard and want the option to change back, then you would need to buy a near new machine from eBay or a retailer with older stock. Of course buying second hand leaves you perhaps with limited warrenty or having to buy Applecare ($$$$$). I would assume that in 12 months though that so many people will have forgotten Spaces and all the new users never even saw it anyway and entered the market at Lion, which may be well more advanced by then, or redundant. Who can tell these days?


You are right, I overlooked those updating their machines, but I suppose now that many many more should be aware of commiting themselves to Lion by upgrading their computers.


Cheers

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Bring back old working Spaces and Expose

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