save as missing in lion

That is all fine and good, but I still don't understand why we needed to lose a very basic function and I have yet to see that anything good has been found in this situation, let alone 10.

The problem isn't the fact that you don't understand why they did that.

They just did it !

If you can't live with this decision, it's time to study alternate tools.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) vendredi 6 janvier 2012

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.2

Well put David, and sadly, I agree completely with your take on our lack of a true Capitalist government. The entire world would be a better place if the government would just get out of the way.

Thanks.

I felt unable to answer with my old scholar English. You did that perfectly (at least from my point of view).

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) vendredi 6 janvier 2012

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.2

The changes to file saving in Lion represent the worst example of changing clear, consise interface elements into ones that are decidely non-intuitive. Where the consequences of Save and Save As were well understood, the meaninging of Save a Version (should't this mean a different version? Shouldn't it ask for a new filename?) and Duplicate (why doesn't this write out a file as in Duplicate in the Finder) are quite ambiguous. This and other interface elements in Lion represent significant backward steps in usability and intuitive behavior

What ashame

Saving a version stores the changed made since the last saved version in a hidden folder.

It doesn't create a new file reachable directly so there is no need for a name.

Maybe, studying the thread

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3303794

would help you to understand.

The menu File > Duplicate is not dedicated to file creation but to document's one.

Open a file.

trigger File > Duplicate

Of course, you may save the new document in a file but you aren't forced to do that.

You may apply changes (which will not be autoSaved), print the edited doc then drop it if you wish.

For sure, as every changes, new features may be received as step backwards by users refusing to take time to study them.

When they are understood, they are really efficient.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) samedi 7 janvier 2012

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.2

EXACTLY!!!!!! Thanks David! Yet again another lucid point as to why this is a regressive failure and in no way represents an "upgrade" to the latest version. It boggles my mind why others on this discussion are so bent on defending this drastic change!? If they feel that this new method forced upon all of us is better, then that's their opinion, but the fact remains that this new methodology ought to have been IN ADDITION TO what we already had.

As far as I know, you aren't in charge of iWork design. So you have to use what is delivered or to drop it.

When you installed the update, you accepted the License which states :

8. Disclaimer of Warranties.

A. YOU EXPRESSLY ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT USE OF THE APPLE SOFTWARE AND SERVICES IS AT YOUR SOLE RISK AND THAT THE ENTIRE RISK AS TO SATISFACTORY QUALITY, PERFORMANCE, ACCURACY AND EFFORT IS WITH YOU. EXCEPT FOR THE LIMITED WARRANTY ON MEDIA SET FORTH ABOVE AND TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, THE APPLE SOFTWARE AND SERVICES ARE PROVIDED “AS IS”, WITH ALL FAULTS AND WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, AND APPLE AND APPLE'S LICENSORS (COLLECTIVELY REFERRED TO AS “APPLE” FOR THE PURPOSES OF SECTIONS 8 and 9) HEREBY DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES AND CONDITIONS WITH RESPECT TO THE APPLE SOFTWARE AND SERVICES, EITHER EXPRESS, IMPLIED OR STATUTORY, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES AND/OR CONDITIONS OF MERCHANTABILITY, OF SATISFACTORY QUALITY, OF FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OF ACCURACY, OF QUIET ENJOYMENT, AND NON-INFRINGEMENT OF THIRD PARTY RIGHTS. APPLE DOES NOT WARRANT AGAINST INTERFERENCE WITH YOUR ENJOYMENT OF THE APPLE SOFTWARE OR SERVICES, THAT THE FUNCTIONS CONTAINED IN THE APPLE SOFTWARE OR SERVICES WILL MEET YOUR REQUIREMENTS, THAT THE OPERATION OF THE APPLE SOFTWARE OR SERVICES WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED OR ERROR-FREE, OR THAT DEFECTS IN THE APPLE SOFTWARE OR SERVICES WILL BE CORRECTED. YOU FURTHER ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE APPLE SOFTWARE AND SERVICES ARE NOT INTENDED OR SUITABLE FOR USE IN SITUATIONS OR ENVIRONMENTS WHERE THE FAILURE OF, OR ERRORS OR INACCURACIES IN THE CONTENT, DATA OR INFORMATION PROVIDED BY, THE APPLE SOFTWARE OR SERVICES COULD LEAD TO DEATH, PERSONAL INJURY, OR SEVERE PHYSICAL OR ENVIRONMENTAL DAMAGE, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE OPERATION OF NUCLEAR FACILITIES, AIRCRAFT NAVIGATION OR COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS, AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL, LIFE SUPPORT OR WEAPONS SYSTEMS.NO ORAL OR WRITTEN INFORMATION OR ADVICE GIVEN BY APPLE OR AN APPLE AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVE SHALL CREATE A WARRANTY. SHOULD THE APPLE SOFTWARE OR SERVICES PROVE DEFECTIVE, YOU ASSUME THE ENTIRE COST OF ALL NECESSARY SERVICING, REPAIR OR CORRECTION. SOME JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OF IMPLIED WARRANTIES OR LIMITATIONS ON APPLICABLE STATUTORY RIGHTS OF A CONSUMER, SO THE ABOVE EXCLUSION AND LIMITATIONS MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) samedi 7 janvier 2012

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.2

Please stop restating the obvious, and quite pointless, particulars of the end user agreement. That is not the point that many are upset about, but you apparently refuse to acknowledge that. We all understand that we blindly checked off our "agreement" to the update (you, no doubt, read it line for line and therefore are well ahead of the rest of us on the learning curve). The point is that a basic function that we all use on a daily basis was taken away and replaced with something that has either less functionality or that slows down our workflow. In either case the rest of us do not view this as an update. The fact that YOU have no problem with it and that we are all stuck with it (regardless of our desire for it) is well known and well documented. So please stop with the cutting and pasting of the contract or of previous changes that have been made in the world of computing.

It really doesn't help going on about it here. Tell Apple instead. http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html

The more doing so the higher pressure on Apple. I myself will not by Lion. I stay with my furry Snow Leopard.

I can't see what you think you are accomplishing by continuing to restate your obvious position. Doing so seems pointless to others although you seem to derive some strange pleasure out of seeing your repeated posts belaboring the same point. Go have a cool brew and find some other way to occupy your time.

Si je peux ajouter mon grain de sel - I have owned and been using AppleMac computers for more than 20 years, in fact I have never used anything else except for the odd occasion at the public library and in all that time there has always been a Save As... since my first black and white SE/30 of 1989.

Now I have moved from Tiger to Lion - I bought a new Mac and all new machines are now shipped with Lion so I didn't have a choice, the change was forced on me. So Yvan are you saying - well not quite because you didn't have to buy a new Mac, you didn't have to buy a computer, you don't have to breathe' - do you get my point?

I accept that Apple are also free to do what they like, they could even choose to stop trading if they wanted but it makes me feel very vulnerable that they can arbitrarily choose to implement changes that might have consequences - makes me think we need to draft our own users' contract with Apple to safeguard our own position.

I'm using Apple engines since the Apple ][+ so, I know pretty well the behavior of Apple products.

But one thing is sure, I always read the products licenses, at least to know which are my rights.

As far as I know, when you started your new machine, you were urged to accept the terms of the license.

So you are supposed to know what are the terms of the contract.

Nothing in this license prevent Apple to change what they want in their apps or operating system.

They did that quite often and happily, they will continue to do that.

For those refusing Lion, there are thousands of second hands machines available.

Even on Apple's refurb, you may get machines built before july 2011. They are delivered with Lion but they may run Snow Leopard.

I wish to add that as a customer you may easily vote against what you dislike : buy other products.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) samedi 7 janvier 2012

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 12 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.2

I think that it is time to move-on to more important issues. But this dialog has been entertaining and informative.

Thank you

MY obvious point? Oh please! I was simply responding to the belabored badgering of "it was in the agreement, so get over it", or the "you don't work for iWork so what's your complaint?" or my favorite "this is the way it is so deal with it!". If that were indeed the case then why even bother with a discusssion board at all? If we are to just grin and bear it, no matter what they do, then we are all wasting our breath. But thanks (yet again) for the fatherly lecture. I also think it is quite telling that there have been well over 4,000 views of this topic, obviously there are a tremendous number of people that have been affected.