What happened to Save As?

Hi:

Steve. sorry to see you leaving this discussion.. will follow up on your suggestion that it should be on the Lion OS forum.

I hope I did not upset anyone by suggesting we move and get on pushing the issue.

But I see no other way.

Will start A lion OS thread tomorrow.

best to you

Cheers elo

Did you have something useful or constructive to say? Any chance you could come to grips with the fact that not every single person in the world has any idea what ML DP3 means, and actually spell it out?

Okay, got it. But I'm way too busy with real work to test/play with beta software. I turned down the opportunity to be an early beta tester for that reason. It's fun (in a way) and interesting to see an OS in progress, but I just can't devote the time to it.

Sorry if I came across as sardonic in my previous comment. I have deep respect for you and other tyranny fighting commentators here. All I was trying to say was that the horse died on the 18th of April ;-)

I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.

—Thomas Jefferson

All I was trying to say was that the horse died on the 18th of April ;-)

And I do respect your opinion. But, there's the issue of the consumer. Any business which fails to listen to what the customer wants is doomed to eventually fail as they continue to produce products no one wants.

The American auto industry is a prime example. For years, decades, the garbage coming out of U.S. plants continued to outsell better made foreign vehicles on a single premise. "Buy American". That is, until consumers finally woke up to the fact that those Hondas and Toyotas were much better cars for the same price. If it weren't for the huge import tariffs tacked onto their price, they'd have been much cheaper. Consumers finally had had enough, and "buying American" was no longer a good enough reason to toss thousands of dollars down the drain on a vehicle that was built so badly.

Want an example? My 1978 Camaro, which I purchased brand new. The paint was so badly applied to the body, you could see primer showing through in numerous places. The fit and finish was a joke. The rear axle/differential was thoroughly rusted! It may have been an unused part, but it had to have been sitting around a warehouse an awfully long time to get that bad. The clincher was the transmission. The car didn't have more than a thousand miles on it, and it was suddenly becoming difficult to accelerate from a stop. Within a week, the car wouldn't move forward and had to be towed to the dealer. The problem was the first gear band, which the mechanic said was so bad, it never should have been used.

That was the kind of mentality of most of the U.S. automakers workers and business itself of the time, and it definitely showed. Get it off the production line. Who cares in the least about quality. I went through two more miserable U.S. made cars. My co-workers kept telling me, "Buy a Toyota, you won't be sorry". I finally broke my own "buy American" stance and did just that. I haven't purchase a U.S. made car since. And neither have many other Americans since then. Just look at how many Japanese cars you see on the roads in any city compared to U.S. vehicles.

The same thing can happen to any company, Apple is no exception. Ignore what your customers want long enough, and they will finally flip you off and go somewhere else.

Right Kurt, and look what it took to reform Detroit 3 years ago - an economic meltdown. Only when faced with the loss of jobs not only in the auto companies themselves but in all the related markets and communities that thrive on the auto industry … only then did they agree to reinvent GM. Ford may have gotten smarter on their own. Like you, I have not bought an American car since my 1976 Ford Granada (What a POS that was). But I drive them as rental cars when I travel and I have seen the improvement.

The comparison to the auto industry is very apropos. Lots of similarities in customers' loyalty to the brand when they make a repeat purchase, customer service at the dealership when maintenance is required and owner satisfaction with the product. Matter of fact, even the price: my first Macintosh cost more than my first car!

Kurt Lang wrote:

All I was trying to say was that the horse died on the 18th of April ;-)

And I do respect your opinion. But, there's the issue of the consumer. Any business which fails to listen to what the customer wants is doomed to eventually fail as they continue to produce products no one wants.

No, you don't understand (or is it the other way around?)! It's dead as in "our voices have been heard"! Or in other words: Save As is back and Auto Save is optional.

This post will probably be deleted because of the NDA now (or am I missing something?)

Or in other words: Save As is back and Auto Save is optional.

The only outside word I've seen on that is that Command+Shift+S is back in Mountain Lion, but all it does is invoke Duplicate. I won't ask you anything more on that, though. Wouldn't want this discussion to fall too far afoul of these forum's rules.

Dennis Burnham wrote:

Good reason to not jump to conclusions until the ML release is beyond beta.

Well, here is at least the first actual concrete evidence that things may finally be swinging in our direction:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1354730&page=3

See posts 54 and 63.

By the way, if you read the whole of this MacRumors forum, you'll see more evidence of what we've seen in this one from Apple's defenders. To wit:

• "I don't have a problem, so how could anyone else possibly have a problem?"

• "What, you don't like Auto Save/Versioning and the loss of Save As? Well, then you're behind the times, or else you're just a whiner."

What you WON'T see, as one of the posters pointed out, is a single post that says:

• "The new paradigms are great; what is gained outweighs what has been lost, and here is why."

• "When you say the new paradigms interfere with your workflow or productivity, you're mistaken, and here is why."

All folks like this can muster when presented with actual reasoning is more snark. Somehow, this doesn't surprise me.

Hi:

found this interesting thread

http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=20110906080326349&query=autosave+ver sions

Concerns about SECURITY data that should not be moved etc. now copied by apple Versions???

also the backup . I wondered where those weird copies of my documents came from>

cheers elo

DChord568 wrote:

Dennis Burnham wrote:

Good reason to not jump to conclusions until the ML release is beyond beta.

Well, here is at least the first actual concrete evidence that things may finally be swinging in our direction

Let's just hope that French, demented, old Pavliks don't have too much influence on Apple's decisions...

Lemmy Caution wrote:

Let's just hope that French, demented, old Pavliks don't have too much influence on Apple's decisions...

LOL! I had to follow the link.

Here in my hometown, that term has a very different connotation!

Agreed! If we are fortunate enough to get this problem solved, even partially, I will be the first to offer up a recipe for humble pie. And you can probably guess what some of the ingredients will be.

Hi:

note The app store's featured "apps enhanced for OSX LION" page now defines at the top what is an enhanced featured app,

they must feature "Multi-touch gestures, Full Screeen Apps, Resume, Auto-Save and Versions"

cheers elo

Graphic Converter 8 has just been released. A complete rewrite. "Preview" plus much more...(I know some things may be missing but many other features)

AND! AND! AND! still offers the opt-in/opt-out feature we all want. found it in preferences and an email straight from Thorsten himself.

cheers elo

still hope out there...