What happened to Save As?

Hi:

I use SAVE AS everyday in photoshop and all my applications. It is for this reason that I am pushing everybody to tell the developers of other software such a photoshop etc not to follow Apples lead.

Several desktop publishing apps have changed to the Versions methology as have Pixelmator...

It must stop.

I have now changed my time machine options settings to lock all my number files after one day. That way I hope not to make a change by mistake.

I agree OS should not have the right to decide for you what should be saved but it appears that Apple think they have.

cheers elo

Wow you guys are still here discussing this!

There seemed to be a glimmer of hope for a while.

I'm still using Lion with all the autosave and versions crap. Is there anything to gain by Upgrading to Mountain Lion or is it another downgrade? - Mounting Lion?

markinbali wrote:

Wow you guys are still here discussing this!

There seemed to be a glimmer of hope for a while.

I'm still using Lion with all the autosave and versions crap. Is there anything to gain by Upgrading to Mountain Lion or is it another downgrade? - Mounting Lion?

You'll have to make up your own mind about any "added features" that Mountain Lion offers. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any that I'm using with any regularity.

Specific to the topic of this thread, the only advantage that Mountain Lion's "Save As" (which you can invoke by holding down the option key when you go to the File Menu) adds is that by default it will save your file in the same place as your original — something that doesn't happen in the Duplicate process.

But as noted, it doesn't work the way Save As has in pre-Lion versions of the Mac OS. You can't just invoke it at any time and know that your original document will remain in its last-saved state. Due to Auto Save, the original document will remain in the state it was when you performed the Save As. In other words, it will be identical to your new document, which kind of defeats the purpose.

I shouted for joy when I learned that Mountain Lion was bringing back Save As. It's cruel to learn that it really hasn't been brought back at all. And it reinforces the position that I and so many others have taken in this thread and elsewhere: the only cure is to make the entire new paradigm (Auto Save and Versions) the default, but give experienced users the choice of opting out of it via a Preference panel and returning to the Mac system that served us very well for 27 years.

I hope all of my friends here have done as I have...unleashed a new barrage of complaints via Apple's feedback mechanism. The effort itself was successful — Apple just botched the implementation...which seems to be fast becoming the norm.

I'm afraid I lost interest in complaining to Apple - they are never going to get it until there is a serious competitor. They are still the better of two evils.

I have managed to avoid using the apps that have complied with the new stupidity except for Preview which I use all the time and it still irritates me. I junked numbers and went back to Excel.

Its sounds as though there is nothing to lose by installing ML so I'll give it a try.

For Elo - I'm happy to report that Rapidweaver from RealMac still uses save as... I think they will never change it - can you imagine continually autosaving a huge website! and losing track of your original file.

Cheers Guys

Hi:

Check out Karelia Software's implementation: (would like to hear your thoughts)

Sandvox by Karelia Software you should download a test version very small a tested it out looks workable and secure they have installed a preference feature to stop backing up versions. unique way to implement apples new way of saving.. no save as but also a way to not use versions. Goes to show that some companies can think outside the apple paradigm

The only two apps that I know of that allow you to turn SAVE AS/Versions on or off

GraphicConverter - photoshop(?), Preview etc etc replacement????? just does everything

NeoOffice - Office replacement pages, numbers, database etc etc.. (but just not pretty or graphics etc...

Apps that have gone with apple!

Pixelmator

Swift Publishing

Apps that have not converted or shown their intent yet

Microsoft Office

Adobe Products

Freeway Pro

Rapidweaver

please help me add to the list

cheers elo

elo,

Thanks for searching for work around solutions and not just complaining. I find myself just complaining. I've invested 4 years in Pages and Numbers and Preview and I don't want to have to learn another program, or even buy one. I just want to have things the way they were so that I can keep doing my job fast and efficiently. I can't believe that Apple said that they added the "new" feature Save-As and then made it act totally against what Save-As has done for years. This is a lie, basically just duplicate which points to the same folder the original file was in. Are they trying to insult us? Is someone there laughing at us saying "Haaa you thought you got Save-As back!" What has caused this insanity in the same people we trusted to make our lives easier? How do people working there cope with seeing over 24,000 views on this article and tens of thousands of views on other articles? One article had over 60,000 views a few months ago. In what place are the people working at Apple knowing they are upsetting tens of thousands of people who then give a dishonest false hope that something as simple as Save-As has returned? Why won't someone there so something?

Steve.

DChord568 wrote:

>But as noted, it doesn't work the way Save As has in pre-Lion versions of the Mac OS. You can't just invoke it at any time and know that your original document will remain in its last-saved state. Due to Auto Save, the original document will remain in the state it was when you performed the Save As. In other words, it will be identical to your new document, which kind of defeats the purpose.

Here I need to check something, must have forgotten it, but with Lion / Mountain Lion:

If I open my file, and either do a Duplicate, or a (New M L) Save As, how does that affect my original document (so that it won't ”remain in its last-saved state.?”) Meaning if I don't do anything on my original file, how should Auto Save affect it?

/ bw

OmarKN

Hi Elo,

You can add Artboard to your list of apps that have gone with Apple.

I have checked out Sandvox before but found Rapidweaver suits me better. I can fully understand why Sandvox has provided a preference to disable versions. The way that Sandvox and Rapidweaver work it would be a nightmare with the versions feature switched on and the bigger your website grows, the worse it would become.

The Rapidweaver developer is treading cautiously because they are aware of the pitfalls of implementing versions and autosave.

GraphicConverter - I will have a serious look at it, it is said to be the best batch converter. I don't think it is a replacement for Preview though. Has anyone yet found a really good replacement for Preview?

Mark

Xee is very good, and is my replacement choice for Preview. Does almost everything Preview does without any type of Autosave/Versions.

Xee can open Nikon .nef RAW images off of my D800. Preview in SL can't. Xee doesn't open .eps files, but most folks outside of prepress don't use .eps anyway.

Xee also doesn't open PDF files, but I use the Acrobat Reader for that so I don't have to put up with Preview's constant inability to correctly open the newer PDF formats as Adobe releases them.

markinbali

...it would be a nightmare with the versions feature switched on and the bigger your website grows, the worse it would become.

Anyone that builds websites knows that sometimes you may open a file and accidentally move something a couple pixels. Then if you simply close the page, but the OS has saved it automatically, it could indeed be a nightmare.

I often open and close lots of web pages in Dreamweaver to view them for various reasons and don't want to have to be concerned about any of them being automatically saved.

Can't imagine Adobe ever forcing autosave on us.

Same for me: Xee+Acrobat Reader work perfectly.

I still use Snow Leopard so I do not have issues with the autoslave crap, but if you must use Lion/ML I would suggest App Zapper to compeletly get rid of Preview, textEdit and the other junk.

In this way you will not change files unintentionally.

For what I use Preview for, Xee is not a satisfactory alternative. I do a lot of croping and pasting of images for website use. The way programs like Xee, Seashore and Pixelmator work with these images is not like Preview. The simplicity of Preview is amazing. It lets me do what I need to do fast. Well it used to. Now it saves the images during the process, reducing the JPEG quality each time and destroying the image. Also since I tried to instal Snow Leopard Preview the GIF saving functionality has gone, and on other programs it messes up the image. So while these are alternatives for you, there is nothing that I have found that works like Preview. Sorry.

Mark,

Not only that, Preview lets you convert a PDF to a JPEG, resize it, crop it and export it as a GIF. You can even copy parts of an image, create a new image and the copied section appears in the new image. A quick process and a large image can be turned into several GIF images for fast website viewing. In the past I could take a Pages document, build a complex web page with images and text, export that to PDF, then with SL Preview easily and quickly take that page, cut it up and make a fast loading web page with small GIF images. I could create pages with the font I wanted using images for text. The process of cropping to the exact pixel so that the final page worked, with links, menu items, scalable images etc took minutes. With other programs I struggle to get it done right. SL Preview was a dream program. Lion Preview scales the image to the size of the window so you cannot select the edges of the image easily. You have to expand the window then zoom down the image. It sounds like a small deal but it's not. It adds time. Then when you cut up an image each time you save it using Duplicate you have the new image on the desktop, not in the folder you were working in. Plus you don't know exactly where you copied from to the exact pixel without going back to the original image. When you line up images that are not pixel perfect they look wrong. I have used photoshop before so I know that is the do all program. But Preview did everything I needed without the added weight and price of photoshop. That is one reason I worked with Apple, because of the power of these little programs like Preview, Pages and Numbers. Having invested 4 years in these programs and a work flow based around them, I have to change? Why Apple?

PS I am in Bali at the moment, in Kuta.

Steve.

That is all true. I mentioned Xee to be used strictly as a viewer, which is all I use Preview for. If I want to edit images, I use Photoshop. Here's some of the higher rated free editors on MacUpdate's site:

http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/12453/toyviewer

http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/15662/seashore

http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/5234/goldberg-x

http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/18064/livequartz-image-editor

Kurt,

Elements is too heavy for what I am doing. It creates layers I don't need etc. powerful but complex.

I tried Seashore and it was a disaster compared to Preview. Everything was so complicated to achieve simple outcomes. Powerful but complex.

Preview was powerful and uncomplicated, the Steve Jobs way.

I will try live quartz. The others look powerless and complex.

Steve.