What happened to Save As?

If it would run on the new hardware they would sell millions!

Mark

I urge you all to use the Apple feedback form to ask for a SL updated with all the new drivers included so that we can do just that. It would not be too much trouble I shouldn't think.

Also, at the same time ask them to reinstate the keyboard shortcut for find-by-file-name. This disappeared in the transition from 9.2 to 10.0 and did not come back till 10.4. Then in the transition from 10.6 to 10.7 it went away again. Will they ever learn? And they might also stop spotlight from returning hits to email messages. I have never yet performed a finder search when I was looking for the content of an email! How dumb is that?

Lion/Mountain Lion is the Vista of the Mac.

sorry, i realise i could have been a little nicer, i just searched it myself and it turns out there is literally no mention of what i said anywhere that i could find, if you cant find it after what i suggested then im afraid i cant help you though as i have mountain lion installed

You have nothing to apologize for. Your response was entirely correct, and PeePee Sprinkles (you have to wonder about someone who would choose that as a screen name) came back with far more vitriol than was called for...particularly when what he said was completely erroneous. With just a small amount of searching, he could have easily found the answer in multiple locations.

And in very typical fashion, we note that he has not come back to admit that he was wrong. He just melted back into the woodwork, as so many other cowards on this board do when shown the error of their ways.

You took responsibility for your post...something that is obviously quite beyond him.

thank you, although i feel i did need to appologise, regardless of whether he was rude to me it does not allow me to do the same, on another note i am slightly worried now by his choice of screen name, i do hope it doesnt imply what im thinking.

What was completely erroneous? I will admit I was wrong, I just need to know with which statement. Nice attempt at flaming, I tend to hide in forums posting when I need to get my work done.

discussions.apple.com:

search = "save as" -> "what happened to save as" (this thread), and "I want my save as back" (flame thread).

search = "how do I save as" = no relevent hits.

search = "Pages save as" = "save as in pages on lion" (a thread of comaplaints asking us to complain).

search = "How do I save as in Keynote" = "Lion does not have "Save as." How do I change the name of a Keynote presentation?" (aside from teaching folks how to "rename", no solution).

search = "why am I wasting my time trying to figure out how to save as?" = "There were no results for why am I wasting my time trying to figure out how to save as?" (no crap).

Also, I posted I have 10.7, not 10.8. And stop being a Linux queen ans calling them animal names, when users use "About This Mac", they are given a version number, not a meme. Pay me and I'll upgrade, but an upgrade and hodling a key down is not the solution folks are looking for.

BTW, I picked this stupid name bacause Apple wouldn't accept the myriad of obviously-unique usernames when I set this up. When I hold down "option", I feel the same anger.

Thanks for this information, Kurt. I set up Mountain Lion at home using all of the settings you suggest some time ago, with the exception of your last section. If I understand you correctly, the change you suggest in Keyboard Preferences will make Save As... appear by default in the File Menu without having to first press the Option key. That would be useful. I will try it on my home Mac tonight.

All of the other changes were ones I made when true Save As... was returned to Mountain Lion, so in all other regards my home Mac works in the way I've been accustomed to for decades.

It should always be about choice. For example, there are times when I do find it useful to have my Mac return to its last state (e.g., web pages or documents open) when I start up after having shut down. But not all of the time, so this shouldn't be imposed upon me by force. On those occasions when I want this to happen, I can simply hit the space bar, and the box invoking this behavior is checked. But it should be off by default, not on.

It took quite a while, but Apple finally got this by providing the options you cite above.

If I understand you correctly, the change you suggest in Keyboard Preferences will make Save As... appear by default in the File Menu without having to first press the Option key.

That is correct. Duplicate will be bumped from the Command+Shift+S position and replace by Save As… .

It should always be about choice.

Absolutely. Somebody (or a group of people) at Apple seemed to have completely forgotten that the job of the OS is to do what you tell it to do. When it tries to guess at your intention, or do things you have no desire for it to do at all, with no way to turn it off, then it is only succeeding in getting in your way.

Some things of course it has always done without your approval or need to even ask. When you save a file, you have no need to even know how it's being done. Your control though is still that you told the OS to do that. How it does that isn't your concern, just so it gets done correctly. Memory management is all at the control of the OS. Few of us would understand the most optimized way to do that, so users don't need to pay attention to how the OS does that. Just do your work and let the OS handle it. There are many other such examples where what happens underneath isn't anything the user needs to, or should even have the option to control.

But your data is YOUR data. The OS had no business at any time deciding for you what to do with it. At least, not without a way to turn it off. Many users love autosave. I, and millions of other users don't want anything to do with it.

As you noted, Apple finally got it right by providing enough options (though not out in the open) to set things back to "normal". Now if only you could truly turn Autosave/Versions off without it screwing up the file menus.

Wow, Kurt, thank you so much for taking the time to create and post that information. It is so easy to understand and follow; so well written. I really appreciate it.

While I am still running Snow Leopard (10.6.8) and Pages 4.0.4 (not latest version) and Numbers 2.0.4 (not latest version), I am thinking that eventually I will have to move on up to the latest OS (ML). All my current software runs just fine with SL, some won't run on ML...waiting until I absolutely have to or someone shows me a really good reason! lol!

And, I have no need to update iWork. I would love to see a NEW version of iWork, it's been so long. But, from what I've read, the updates are mainly for Lion/M.Lion. I don't want to mess with a good thing.

I TOTALLY agree with your last post - I DO NOT WANT my Mac Mini or my MacBook to operate, function, look, etc like an iPhone, iPad, or iPod, (mobile iOS!!). I want more control.

I copied and created a Bean document for future reference...just in case. Bean (an excellent TextEdit replacement), by the way, is no longer being developed and that's too bad.

Again, thanks for the post.

I am thinking that eventually I will have to move on up to the latest OS (ML).

I've recently gotten to the point where I have to move out of Snow Leopard, at least for some apps. My normal MOI is to purchase the upgrade for QuickBooks Pro for Mac every other year. The 2013 version will only run in Lion or Mountain Lion, so in order to use it, I have to move to ML. There is also an App Store item I purchased which will not run in SL, so that's another reason to finally move to ML.

For me, since I have essentially always avoided any production apps written by Apple, moving to ML will really be no different than SL. With the changes above, I no longer even need replacements for TextEdit or Preview since I can now close them down without changes being applied to files I have open without my knowledge or approval. Everything else I use day to day (like the Adobe suites and MS Office) completely ignores Autosave/Versions.

About the only holdovers I must boot into Snow Leopard for is our scanners, which are currently permanently stuck as PPC software (and don't work in a VM due to lack of FireWire port linking) and a profiling software package we still need for full profile editing. But we don't use either of those that often, so it's not like I'd be booting back and forth every day. I just need to finish installing everything else I currently have under SL into ML and I'll be ready to use it as my everyday OS.

Scanners? Geez, I never even thought about my scanners. Like you said, not that I use it everyday, but I do use my scanner and I have no idea if it would work in ML.

Guess I would have to learn to use Boot Camp! I've never had the need before.

I currently use Calendar Maker by Prairie Group and the newest version will not work in ML. They haven't updated their program either. I use Calendar Maker a lot.

Sometimes the new OS is very inviting, especially at Apple's price. But, right now I'm not updating. I bought my latest machines just before Lion came out, so SL was the OS, so they could handle ML, but I'll just wait....

Time goes too fast! lol!!

**Oh, and I really don't like the App Store - I have never used it and I avoid it! If I upgrade to ML, I would have to learn how to save the file and make a disk. I don't like having to connect to Apple whenever I have to format and reinstall (not that I've had to do that a lot or anything). Guess I like having control over my computers! The App Store feels too much like mobile devices.

I bought my latest machines just before Lion came out, so SL was the OS, so they could handle ML, but I'll just wait....

Hah! 🙂 I did exactly the same thing. I wasn't really in the market to replace my Mac Pro, but when I found out Lion dropped all support for Rosetta, I purchased as new of a Mac Pro I could that shipped with Snow Leopard as the bundled OS. It's the one I'm on now, but can still upgrade to ML. Actually, the previous one can, too. We're using it as our second work station and is connected to our other scanner. The older Mac Pro I'm guessing will max out at ML.

>It took quite a while, but Apple finally got this by providing the options

Thank God, the Apple people listened to their rather shocked customers!

But it took a long while!

Now I've updated to 10.8.2 with Kurt's advice and it looks just fine ...

... and after 145 pages (of this discussion saved much of the discussion - I wonder:

============ has this been the longest (Apple-) thread ever? =============

/ Omar K N

Mac user since OS 7.0

I admit my typos.

I admit you didn't help me, but that you are proud to be a fan-boy.

I admit you can' t see beyond an arbitrary forum name (seems racist).

I also admit Kurt Lang has provided a great response for 10.8 users, Thanks Kurt. It seems I have to upgrade.

Kurt gets a coveted PeePee hug.

It seems I have to upgrade.

Hopefully, you can. Depending on your model Mac, you may be able to install Lion, but not Mountain Lion. The Core Duo 2 iMac we use as a server is like that. Lion is the latest OS it will ever be able to run.

Yes, I know that, but that's not the point. To new users, it's not a big deal. That's just the way it is from the start and they get used it that way because they haven't already learned and gotten set with the previous commands.

1) For long time Mac users, reassigning Command+Shift+S to Duplicate breaks years of muscle memory and memorized procedure to do a Save As. I do a lot of my commands from the keyboard and Save As is ingrained as Command+Shift+S. Not a forced moved to the menu bar to get at it.

Yes, without modifying the keyboard setup, you can do it from the keyboard as Command+Option+Shift+S, but try it. While Command+Shift+S is pretty easy to do, Command+Option+Shift+S is a very awkward stroke to do with one hand.

2) If you do all of the steps I outlined, it also puts the OS X back to the way long time users expect the OS to work. It never made sense to break 25 years of menu commands by suddenly moving/changing it.