DON'T UPDATE TO LION!

10.7.1 does fix only Audio and ichat specific stuff, some wifi errors ( still not fixed completely ! ) , safari plugin support in combination with now working graphics drivers ( the Nvidia drivers in 10.7 were plain simple defective leading to Kps when browsing websites with flash ). Only for the new Mini it fixes SDcard slow speed.

Still unfixed in 10.7.1 :

- QuickTime Player ( trim / edit defect )

- AirPort / Wifi connection rate below what's technical possible.

- Random Kernel Panics and bootup problems , general loss of speed and unstable.

- Dock forgets icon positions.

- Mission Control forgets Desktops and Program -to-Desktop settings, plus graphical bugs in MC

- Mail randomly can not send mails via SMTP if pop account uses forced TLS encryption

- Watching youtube videos on Chrome in fullscreen mode projects the video to the Desktop instead of a browser window.

- iTunes has problems with Equalizer turned on, leading to crackling noises.

- FaceTime has random problems and wont connect to Apples Servers, thus making the app useless.

- SystemSettings crashes when a 32bit prefpane is loaded.

- 3rd party wifi utilities will lead to connection loss if a app has been used in fullscreen mode ( Ralink Utility ).

- PhotoBooth can crash for no reason if the new effects are used in fullscreen mode.

......

more ? Sure you find more.

Lion is crap.Plain simple. It might need three or four major revisions until all that is fixed. But definately not now usable. Snow Leo 10.6.8 is a humble silent stable workhorse compared to a buggy and faulty Lion 10.7.1.

I UPDATED TO LION!

and except for a few small bugs it's fine. I'm having less big problems with it than with SL (which broke firewire).

I have an issue with folder windows resizing smaller and icons getting bigger (and yes, I hit Use as Default), Flip4Mac doesn't play nice with Lion using WMV (they are promising an update), Quicktime player seems a bit funky, I lost a couple of audio apps that were PPC, wake from sleep require a click from the mouse, not just a simple move of the mouse.

I've had no other issues (well, I bought a trackpad for it and that makes my thumb hurt, so I'm back to MagicMouse) with it. It seems stable (I have the betas on a separate external HD and they were pretty stable as well) and pleasant to use.

I see lots of people with Minis and MBPs here saying that they have issues. But my iMac is fine.

It's worth noting that these forums are always full of problems, but the forums represent a minority of users. I noticed lots of complaints about iPhones here, but whenever I was in an Apple Store, I NEVER saw anyone trying to resolve those issues or replace/return their phone.

If you are having issues, look for posts with similar issues with similar hardware. Then see if there is a connection. Also, if you have in any way altered your system by moving things around or renaming them, or if you don't use utilities to keep your system clean, or if your HD is full, you may be the reason there are problems.

Yes, Apple is not perfect. Yes, they release systems with bugs (all companies seem to do that). Sometimes it seems as if the release is at fault (I had to replace all my WD HDs and get G Drives so I could boot up my iMac from my external HDs under SL using firewire). But to say, DON'T UPDATE TO LION is ridiculous. Just because you (or even some of you) have issues does not mean all of us do, or will.

Once I did return back to Snow Leopard, I checked my MacBook for issues that may have caused the Lion problems I had. On of the issues was the OS crash casued by iPhoto v9.1.5. Since I did also expirienced also a performance loss under Snow Leopard, I "googled" for iPhoto issues. I did get some usefull information and am happy again with iPhoto '11.

Even though, this is not a iPhoto thread, here my tip in case someone else had a similar problem with iPhoto & Lion

http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=20090227072825458

You may also press the option and command key when launching iPhoto to reveal some repair option, if the database needs some maintenance...

I guess, it is worth to invest some time, and update alle installed programs and check for possible issues before you upgrade to Lion. At least I did win some faith again and will give Lion a second chance, when time has come.

just to clear things up : I did a clean Lion install, using a selfmade usb boot drive and I wiped the complete HD . So it is stock Lion with no SL underneath and definately nothing "moved around". And still all the errors are there and kernel panics like **** ( up to ten a day ).

For me the still broken 10.7.1 was the key to once again wipe the disk. I have restored this morning my SL backup to be back in business and I tell you what : ALL issues are gone!.

I simply installed Lion over SL and I have no issues. Especially no KPs. Have you run diagnostics on your machine (DiskWarrior or TechToolPro)?

The hardware is 1000% ok. otherwise I would see Snow Leo also behaving strange, wouldn't I ? .... but it is only in Lion the case.

<Edited by Host>

Problems do exist with releases, but they do not seem to be global in this instance (my Lion works). If mine works and yours doesn't, the issue is either an issue with our specific systems or our specific machines.

Good luck with your issues.

<Edited by Host>

The Dude Abides wrote:

I see lots of people with Minis and MBPs here saying that they have issues. But my iMac is fine.

It's worth noting that these forums are always full of problems, but the forums represent a minority of users.

But to say, DON'T UPDATE TO LION is ridiculous.

Lion is a disaster on my Mac mini. If you have a Mac mini and you haven't yet "upgraded" to Lion, I would definately say, DON'T UPDATE TO LION!

If you don't know what the actual statistics are, then you simply have no basis to say that the forums represent a minority of users. If you do know what the statistics are, please share them with us.

Seriously?

NO ONE knows how many people have issues with ANYTHING Apple, so your suggestion that I trot out statistics is merely spin on your part, as I'm sure you know.

My point, and it is a valid point, is that this forum represents, and has since I joined here in 2001, a minority of Mac users. The vast majority either don't know it exists, could care less, don't have issues, or...? If there are ten thousand people using the forum, or even a hundred thousand (an unlikely high number), there are many millions of Mac users. So maybe the forum represents ten percent, or, much more likely, a few percent, of Mac Users.

Just as with the iPhone, I'd see people here screaming about how it didn't work, don't buy it, theirs won't get signal, it drops calls, etc. Yet the iPhone was flying out of stores, selling millions of units, and I never saw a single person in an Apple Store complaining about what I was reading about- which I surely would have if all those millions of phones had the issues that the few hundred people who posted here claimed it did.

So here people are, a few hundred at best, claiming that Lion doesn't work, don't buy it, and anyone who says it's fine is a (pick your unpleasant noun).

All YOU personally can say is that, on YOUR Mac Mini, Lion doesn't work. But it does not seem to be a global issue or there would be many more posts here and on other forums complaining that EVERY Mac Mini doesn't work with Lion. And people would be streaming into the Mac store for help, which I am not seeing.

All I can personally say is that, on my iMac, and on my friends' iMacs, Lion works fine (I have no friends with Minis). Anything else is conjecture. But the mere fact that mine has no problem with Lion makes it NOT A GLOBAL ISSUE. There can be no argument there. That IS the statistic. Mine works.

I'm certainly sorry you are having issues with Lion. But please do not assume that everyone is.

You say "I did a clean Lion install, using a selfmade usb boot drive and I wiped the complete HD ."

I think maybe your problem has been that you nievely thought installing Lion is the same as installing Snow Leopard. This may in part be due to the limited information you get from Disk Utility. It does not normally show the EFI partition on either, nor the Recovery HD partition which the Lion installer creates. To see these you need to run the following command in the Terminal app and then select from the Debug menu "Show all partitions".

defaults write com.apple.diskutility DUDebugMenuEnabled 1

If the EFI partition (Disk0s1) has been corrupted or is from the previous installation, you may well have problems. Also, if you try again, first try the re-partition procedure given in the Apple bulletin, to re-build the disk GPT (GUID Partition Table). See:

http://support.apple.com/kb/TS3926

I have heard others say that they cannot install from such home-made USB installers. Maybe you should clone your SL to an external disk, (good backup practice) and re-download the installer onto that, run it's Disk Utility to re-partition the computer etc and install from there.

Sjazbec wrote:

The hardware is 1000% ok. otherwise I would see Snow Leo also behaving strange, wouldn't I ?

Not necessarily. The hardware runs at extremely high speeds, which requires very tight tolerances for the timing for each of its components to reach a stable state if everything is to work right. But each version of the OS uses these components slightly differently (& typically later OS versions use some of them more than earlier ones) so a slightly mariginal component may work fine with one OS version but not another.

This is why diagnostic tools like the Apple Hardware Test exist. It is basically a mini-OS purpose designed to test the hardware independently of any OS X version. No software based, hardware self-test is 100% reliable (since some hardware defects cannot be detected by hardware that is misbehaving) but it is still worth running to eliminate the possibility of the hardware defects it can detect.

The Dude Abides wrote:

Seriously?

NO ONE knows how many people have issues with ANYTHING Apple, so your suggestion that I trot out statistics is merely spin on your part, as I'm sure you know.

My point, and it is a valid point, is that this forum represents, and has since I joined here in 2001, a minority of Mac users.

All YOU personally can say is that, on YOUR Mac Mini, Lion doesn't work. But it does not seem to be a global issue or there would be many more posts here and on other forums complaining that EVERY Mac Mini doesn't work with Lion. And people would be streaming into the Mac store for help, which I am not seeing.

I'm certainly sorry you are having issues with Lion. But please do not assume that everyone is.

What evidence do you have to support your contention that this forum represents, and has since you joined here in 2001, a minority of Mac users, if you have no statistics to trot out? Your comment is merely anecdotal without knowing the actual statistics.

Do you have a Mac mini? Why does my Mac mini often crash when I switch away from its HDMI input? Why did this problem not happen at all under Snow Leopard? Why does my Mac mini crash after it's been idle for several hours? Why did this problem not happen at all under Snow Leopard? Why haven't you been reading the Mac mini forum?

I don't assume that everyone is having problems with Lion, only those who are writing about problems with Lion in this forum. Of course, it's merely anecdotal, but there certainly do seem to be quite a lot.

"What evidence do you have to support your contention that this forum represents, and has since you joined here in 2001, a minority of Mac users, "

Again, seriously?

What statistics do YOU have that this forum represents a majority of Mac users?

You don't, any more than I do.

But we both know that no majority group of buyers of virtually any consumer item joins a forum to discuss it. Heck, I've got an Oppo Blu-Ray player, which has an incredibly small and loyal base, and the forum for it consists of a minority of users, even though the forum runs more than a thousand pages of posts.

It makes no sense for you to claim that the majority of the multiple millions of Mac buyers come to this forum. This forum is clearly not that big. I saw a mention on the Mini forum that one of the Lion threads had 43,000 hits, but it should be clear that many of those were returnees seeking answers, not 43,000 individuals each making a single read of the thread.

I obviously have no Mac Mini, as I clearly stated. I clearly have an iMac that works with Lion. This thread was started with the line DON'T UPDATE TO LION, not DON'T UPDATE TO LION IF YOU HAVE A MAC MINI.

I have stated several times that I've seen more issues in this thread with Minis and MBPs than with other Macs. Yes, I have read some Mini forums.

But, having been here since 2001, I've seen before that products/updates with issues get lots of people here claiming the issue they are having is global (especially the proximity sensor and dropped call "issue" on the iPhone 4) while many, many others do not post because they have no issues. And then we have the back and forth of, well, it's affecting everyone/no it's not/yes it is. I've had people here and on other forums, and in person, tell me that my i4 has proximity issues and drops calls. I've been accused of not understanding that this is happening. I've been called names like fanboy and worse for not admitting my phone is doing so. And yet, my phone is not. My son's i4 is not. My friends' phones are not. I am very tech savvy when it comes to Macs and I am aware of what works and what does not.

Having read this thread, it seems clear that some people are having Lion issues. But clearly not everyone, or there would be many, many more posts and many, many people at the Apple Store complaining. And my point that I have no Lion problem, and that others with Macs have no Lion problems, is fact. That you and others have issues is certainly fact as well, but do ALL Minis (or MBPs) have an inability to run it? Is it a basic problem with the hardware, or with people's systems, or the software, or...? There is no way of knowing.

But, historically, this forum is for people who have issues, not those who don't. Those who don't, don't post, for the most part. And most people who buy Macs don't visit this forum, either, because they may not know about it, care about it, be that "into it," etc. Most people just buy a computer and use it.

Statisitics? Found this, an offical Apple press release from January, 2009. No iPads yet, so numbers are not up-to-date in many ways. But if it sold 2.5 million computers in a quarter, and 27 million iPods/iPhones in a quarter, we're talking 30 million + units. Times four, for one year, 120 million units. If it goes down or up 10%, still over 100 million units a year. Over the past three years, that would be 300 million + units. Does anyone believe "the majority" of Mac users come here? Seriously? Given that many people might buy multiple machines (computer + iPod + iPhone) let's say 150 million individuals. Ten percent would be 15 million. Seems high to me, given the number of people seen here. One percent? Two percent? Maybe.

Gotta love statistics, right?

Apple Reports First Quarter Results

Best Quarterly Revenue and Earnings in Apple History
iPod Sales Set New Record

CUPERTINO, California—January 21, 2009—Apple® today announced financial results for its fiscal 2009 first quarter ended December 27, 2008. The Company posted record revenue of $10.17 billion and record net quarterly profit of $1.61 billion, or $1.78 per diluted share. These results compare to revenue of $9.6 billion and net quarterly profit of $1.58 billion, or $1.76 per diluted share, in the year-ago quarter. Gross margin was 34.7 percent, equal to the year-ago quarter. International sales accounted for 46 percent of the quarter’s revenue.

In accordance with the subscription accounting treatment required by GAAP, the Company recognizes revenue and cost of goods sold for iPhone™ and Apple TV® over their economic lives. Adjusting GAAP sales and product costs to eliminate the impact of subscription accounting, the corresponding non-GAAP measures* for the quarter are $11.8 billion of “Adjusted Sales” and $2.3 billion of “Adjusted Net Income.”

Apple sold 2,524,000 Macintosh® computers during the quarter, representing nine percent unit growth over the year-ago quarter. The Company sold a record 22,727,000 iPods during the quarter, representing three percent unit growth over the year-ago quarter. Quarterly iPhone units sold were 4,363,000, representing 88 percent unit growth over the year-ago quarter.

More timely numbers:

Apple is ramping up iPhone production to a degree never before witnessed. That's according to the latest reports from Apple's manufacturing partners in the far east.

Between iPhone 5 production (just now swinging into full gear) and reports of a cheaper 8GB iPhone 4 coming for deployment in emerging new markets, Apple is believed to be on pace to double the total number of anticipated iPhone shipments through the end of 2011.

58 million units is the new estimate for both quarters (3 and 4) combined, says FBR Capital Markets analyst Craig Berger. "Third quarter iPhone builds were revised higher due to an additional 3.1M iPhone 4 builds (to 15.2M units) and due to an additional 1.4M iPhone 5 builds (to 6.8M units)," Berger said to investors. "We still see 3M builds planned on the legacy iPhone 3GS to satisfy demands from various US and European carriers calling for a low cost device to compete with Android handsets."

"We see most of the [fourth quarter] iPhone production on the iPhone 5 (23M units), as iPhone 4 production drops off dramatically," he added. "Apple's current build plan drives total production to 102M units in calendar 2011, and likely driving about 95M units of sales."