What happened to "save as"

Hey... just FYI, I learned this from another post:

If (on Mavericks, not sure about other OS), when in Preview, you press "OPTION" while clicking "File," it adds "Save As" to the menu. Sigh... what a relief.

Also, apparently, the "export" function works just like 'Save as," in that it allows you to change the file type as well as the file name.

Granted, this is Preview, not Pages. So forgive me if this "hijacks" your thread.

Thanks for help and good-bye.

Hi Sparky,

Save As... was replaced with Duplicate in Lion (OS X v10,7) to the great chagrin of several users. Apple put it back in Mountian Lion, requiring the use of the Option key to see it in the File menu of any applications following the Apple user interface guidelines.

No change in that behaviour from ML to Mavericks.

And it aplies to Pages and other Apple applications as well, so you're not completely in the wrong place. 😉

Regards,

Barry

You can have it back permanently, without the option key:

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/5533525

Save As… is permanantly visible now on my Mac.

Peter

You know, it seems that the "export" function is exactly the same as "save as" in that it lets you save the current version in whatever format you want, leaving the original intact.

If it's just a matter of getting used to a new name ("export" vs. "save as") that's not such a big deal.

Then again, why on earth would they mess with something like this to begin with? What could possibly be the purpose or thinking? For 20+ years we've all been "saving" or "saving as" -- and now, something different? Why?

It's like forcing American kids to switch to the metric system (a grand failure, both times), but without the benefit of metric being more sensible and widely used.

You are rather late to the debate 🙂 It isn't just about removing Save As..., that was something of a side affect of the big change...

With Lion, Apple set out to solve a very common problem: "Open a previously saved file, make some changes and select Save instead of Save As..." Oops, the user just erased the oriiginal file. As a tech support person I must have fielded questions about how to retrieve the original contents thousands of times. Answer: unless you have a backup, it is gone.

Apple's solution was two fold. First, get rid of Save As... because it is 'dangerous'. Dangerous because it leads to the behavior above. Apple created the Duplicate command which forced the user to create a copy of the file before altering it. This new behavior means the user cannot possibly lose data because s/he can't have a second copy to change before Duplicating it. (Well, yes, it is possible, just change the file as usual and Save but since there's no Save As... the user will quickly learn not to do that. Besides, Lion introduced versioning so it isn't lost anyway.)

Problem: We have had 30+ years with Save As... and this new method is such a huge change to our workflow that users rejected it. So after the predicted uproar Apple returned Save As.. in 10.8

Intellectually I totally understand what Apple was trying to accomplish but at the same time I too resisted the new system - especially since so many programs didn't make the switchover...and still haven't.

Metric is not more sensible and widely used?

Wow! That is news to me! I think it shaved a couple of years off the education system here for starters.

Export is not the same, in many cases where you just want to change something but under a different name.

Duplicate > Save is a PITA and so error prone.

Peter

Interesting. And I do see your point. I've never actually "saved as" and erased a document by accident, but I've done plenty of other bonehead maneuvers, so I can see why they changed it.

Perhaps "duplicate" and/or "export" isn't so bad after all ; ).

PeterBreis0807 wrote:

Duplicate > Save is a PITA and so error prone.

Peter

PITA - yes. Error prone....compared to changing a file and then forgetting to use Save As instead of Save?

Sorry. WRONG!

Apple was right to make the change it did...but about 30 years too late.

NO. Metric is both more sensible AND more widely used. You misread.

The introduction of Versions was sufficient to eliminate that danger with Save As…; the change to Duplicate was extraneous to that issue.

Here's how it works.

You open a file, mull over the details then get hit with an idea and change it.

Previously you'd go Save As… and give it a sensible name "Blue version" because after some consideration and playing with the idea you went blue.

You now have 2 files, the original and the blue version. A single step.

Today you open a file, jump in your time machine to what you know you are going to do in the future, then Duplicate > Save > Give it the predictive name because you always work backwards from a name, then create. By this time let's hope you haven't forgotten what you were going to do, and actually do it, then let OSX save it automatically for you.

Oops, it has also saved the file you duplicated! Now did you, or did you not change anything in that, say half an hour ago or more? Can't quite remember? Better go and look through it in detail and compare it against your new document. Oh, dear in the process it now thinks you have changed something, even if you haven't and either saves or prompts you to. Now you don't even have the clue as to which was last saved to tell you where you were up to.

Or you foolishly went straight to your idea, because you were concentrating on just that, and made the changes.

Now what? Duplicate and Save to the new version name? Bugger, you'll then have 2 files, both with your changes in it. But you didn't want that. You wanted an original and a changed version, not two changed versions.

So you have to reopen the original file, in the hope of finding a reverted version and force it back to that and resave again. But are not quite sure it actually has.

As a bonus your older idea will now have the newer date.

Now you have totally lost track of where you were, and what you were doing. Never mind, give up.

Everybody is just Tweeting and posting selfies in Facebook!

Get with the program.

Peter

And that's why I say Apple did the right thing 30 years too late. Had Save As never become part of our work flow Duplicating before making a change would have been completely natural and eliminated the chance for error. Instead Apple implements a rewind feature to save us from the mistake.

To me, preventing a mistake is better than providing a way to recover from the mistake.

And this kind of sarcasm snarkiness is why I generally avoid the forum. Peter I just don't understand why you are here. You admit you hate iWork and you obviously would be happier using Windows. Why do you insist on punishing yourself and us?

Let's ignore the fact that most of the users, never save in the first place and that is how they lose their work.

Apple didn't bother with a temporary, untitled file that would solve this one.

And the users are already confused, how are they going to keep in their heads what happened, when and where?

Add bewildered, lost and totally rooted to previously just being confused and forgetful.

Peter

dwb wrote:

And this kind of sarcasm snarkiness is why I generally avoid the forum. Peter I just don't understand why you are here. You admit you hate iWork and you obviously would be happier using Windows. Why do you insist on punishing yourself and us?

Where do you get that from?

You seem to struggle with my 'annoying' habit of actually thinking things through instead of just "going with the program".

Peter