Does anyone like Natural Scrolling

last entry: please go to the bar and leave here.

Obviously you wish to censor anyone's opinion that differs from your own, as your repeated demands for me not to post in this thread demonstrate.

It seems its you that should leave. A discussion forum is for a polite exchange of opinions. You've neither added anything to the actual question, nor been polite with your posts.

Check yourself before checking others, brother.

again a last post: I will not be at the bar !!

I've no idea what you're talking about, but if it makes sense to you, crack on brother. Who am I to censor you?

But here's the way I see it:

The (arguably) "natural" analogy is inherently different for a tablet versus a computer.

1. In a tablet you're actually touching the content - so the "natural" approach is for a finger movement to move the content. Hence the invention of "swiping", which feels completley natural from the first time you use it.

2. In a computer the thing you're touching is NOT the content but is analogous to a viewing device (such as a camera viewfinder) - so the "natural" result of moving that device is opposite to #1. And the scrollbar concept follows that analogy so provides consistency. Both the scrollbar and the two-finger swipe (original edition) have always felt completely natural from the first time you use them.

The conclusion I reach is that it was already "natural" and Apple shouldn't have messed with it. Not only was it already completley logical the "old" way but it also "felt" compeltley right and natural.

I realize its a metter of opinion but I do subscribe to the view that the "old" way works just fine, feels very natural, and is consistent across all platforms. Apple has really messed up the landscape by introducing a conflicting paradigm which will forever creat confusion and inconsistency.

PS - I suppose that the subtext is that Apple is preparing for a long-term trend, which is the merging of the tablet and computer paradigms (such as, perhaps, laptops with touch screens), in which case the question of "naturalness" becomes more murky...

Please do not buy from the Dark Empire, because there are many more like Chip Old who don't like the way you participate in the discussion.

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"I have no idea what this means: 'buy from the dark empire' what are you talking about?

Moreover, I couldn't care less if you don't like my questions. It's you that's offering insults, not I.

My question is genuine: how is it "more intuitive"? I don't want to convince you not to use it, I want you to give me a good reason as to why I should use it by explaining what 'more intuitive' means. Maybe you're right and I'm wrong.

On the other hand, if you use it simply because its different, fine. But if so, don't pretend its better by saying its 'more intuitive' when its just different."

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Absolutely. A simpe question of why instroduce it if it does nothing more than is already being done?

The fact that I use three other computers which scroll in the opposite way, definitely brings to my mind such an unnecessary point - but I'm getting by with it!😉

I simply love it - have Magic Trackpad on my iMac, and of course Trackpad on my MBP.

Should the arrow keys now follow the natural scroll convention? The fact that they do not can be confusing.

Going back to Windows can be irritating, but if this become popular on the Mac, how long before MS adopts this as an option? Not long I would guess - they've taken other Mac innovations and incorporated them into the OS (and Aple have done the reverse), so why not?

With iOS, it is very natural, on the Mac it takes a bit of getting used to, but once in muscle memory, it's very easy and becomes the natural way to push the page up or down.

I've tried several times to get used to it but I simply can't get it to feel "natural". I think the reason is as follows:

On a touch screen in iOS you are touching the actual content so it's "natural" that the content moves in the same direction that you're pushing. However on the computer ( Mac or PC), the paradigm is of a "viewing device" (trackpad or magic mouse or window) - and, just like a camera viewfinder the "natural" way is to see the content scanning through the window in the opposite direction.

Anyhow that's the way my brain wants yo see it so I have "natural" scrolling definitely turned off.

The old way of scrolling was that the scroll wheel (or device) was moving the indicator in the scroll bar. If you leave the scroll bar hidden, then the idea is the scroll device is operating on the window content.

The 'natural scrolling' method is all about getting people to think about moving the window content instead of a scroll bar, making scrolling uniform across the various interfaces.

TempusThales wrote:

Anyone else using natural scrolling?

"Natural scrolling" is not natural.

Only in Apple's upside down crazy world is down is up and up is down and they call it "natural" 😁

Martin, if they need to make this effort to "get people to think", as you put it, in an unfamiliar way, that would make it UNnatural wouldn't it?

I think the best example is in Photoshop, if you click on the indicator in the scroll bar you drag the indicator down to move the image content up. But if you move the cursor over the image and hold the spacebar down you get the hand tool and you drag the mouse in exactly the opposite direction to move the image. Both are natural because both do what you expect.

So unless you unhide the scroll bars your cursor is "linked" to the window's content.

I got used to drinking Scotch, so this is hardly a ripple on the pond. 😁

I prefer the original way, which to me is natural.

The term, "Natural" scrolling is misleading. It means that the older way is "Unnatural," which it is not.

Can anyone imagine someone saying that they like the "Unnatural" scrolling better? The name is pure spin.

When you pan a camera to the left, the picture does not move to the left, it moves to the right. It is an egocentric versus exocentric thing. What changed things was the introduction of tablets and smartphones where one puts his finger(s) on the screen, which used to be a no-no.

Xerox PARC, from whom both Apple and Microsoft "borrowed" the GUI and the mouse, had it correct, AFAIK. Both Apple and MS mice scrolled "normally" until recently.

But again, it's moot. Either way is fine with me as long as it works.

I drink Scotch too but don't remember having to get used to it. Probably just had too much in the first place .😉

I agree the term "Natural" may not be the best, but I can't think of something better at the moment. I set my Mac up to use the old way of scrolling (i.e. natural to you but unnatural to Apple).

I think putting fingers on the screen is still a no-no, but touching the tablet is o.k.

Sometimes standards change whether we like it or not. 😟

polarbreeze1 wrote:

Martin, if they need to make this effort to "get people to think", as you put it, in an unfamiliar way, that would make it UNnatural wouldn't it?

Well it depends. I think the there's Apple's way and having the option of having a Nun stand by you with a ruler. 😁