How long will it be before the bugs in Lion are fixed and i should upgrade to lion from SL?

Well said, Cattus.

If Lion wants to have all of these new features that are supposed to improve my (any user) workflow and it turns out that in fact they do not suit my (any users) needs, then at least let us have the option to turn them off.

This needs to be the first thing people read after clicking on:

Apple Support Communities > Mac OS & System Software > Mac OS X v10.7 Lion > Discussions. Honestly.

I would love if every potential Lion user read this. I'd love it even more if Mac program development was forced to read this every day when they got to work. Well done, softwater.

softwater wrote:

Most people are calling for the option to turn things off - like autosave and versions for example - they're not denying their use to other people.

Also, many of us who are wholly unimpressed with Lion (for whatever reason, whether its performance problems or usability dislikes) are running both Snow Leopard and Lion on another disk. That means we're able to compare the two over time and see if things are getting better. The fact that even after 4 months, I'm still seeing no improvement in the system's basic usability means I'll continue to recommend that anyone who has a 'flawlessly' running mac which they need for professional use either not to update yet, or to update while keeping their current Snow Leopard install running on a clone.

That's common sense, but just shouting — 'go for it, it's great' — is just reckless advice given the number of people who've found themselves in serious difficulty after blindly doing so.

I didn't and don't want to dislike Lion. It's just not a serious OS. It's a silly, fun-time OS.

It's just not a serious OS. It's a silly, fun-time OS.

Ridiculous statement. It's very advanced, smooth and speedy with a revolutionary system of data management. When you make remarks like that you come across as childish, really.

The problem with "turning things off" is that you change the very nature of the application. All these apps are databases now. They're about data management, a quite distinct activity from file management. I know there's a bit of a leap there, but that's what it is.

Regards

TD

Terence Devlin wrote:

The problem with "turning things off" is that you change the very nature of the application.

Yes, I understand that. However, the nature of the application should not be the first priority. The user's needs should be.

Terence Devlin wrote:

It's just not a serious OS. It's a silly, fun-time OS.

Ridiculous statement. It's very advanced, smooth and speedy with a revolutionary system of data management. When you make remarks like that you come across as childish, really.

The problem with "turning things off" is that you change the very nature of the application. All these apps are databases now. They're about data management, a quite distinct activity from file management. I know there's a bit of a leap there, but that's what it is.

Regards

TD

When you make remarks like this you come across as arrogant, really.

I know you have 18 billion "points" or whatever, but just the same. You obviously have a lot of free time on your hands to be posting on Apple forums so much. Other people that use Macs use them for work, and at work efficiency matters.

Perhaps if I was to sit around for the better part of my days on-line using Lion I be tickled pink with it. Truth is, I'm not. I usually have the entire Adobe CS open, FTP Clients, Mail, iTunes, Extensis, plus about 50,000 more apps at once because I need them to be. This gives Lion furballs.

But the user's needs are still cared for - albeit differently. Build a new road and the route between cities changes - but you still get there.

I use Macs for work all day, every single day. Given that you are somewhat prone to exaggeration :

I usually have the entire Adobe CS open, FTP Clients, Mail, iTunes, Extensis, plus about 50,000 more apps at once

I'll allow others to evaluate the seriousness of your contribution for themselves. I've already shared my opinion.

Regards

TD

Terence Devlin wrote:

But the user's needs are still cared for - albeit differently. Build a new road and the route between cities changes - but you still get there.

Now who's being silly? Resorting to fairy-tale like metaphors indicates a lack of argument and we both know why, because the reasoning behind the changes goes like this:

Lion is aimed a mass market

Mass market users want safety and simplicity over configurability

Safety and simplicity means locked databases, restricted access and fewer options

On the other hand:

Professional users needs configurability and control over the OS

Conclusion:

Lion is not aimed at professional users.

Which only justifies the point you were calling 'silly' earlier; 'toy' may be a bit strong, but Lion nevertheless is not intended for the kind of sophisticated use that previous iterations of the OS like Snow Leopard were. You've only got to look at the fact they didn't even think about implementing the proper processes for dual-monitor use to see that.

Terence Devlin wrote:

I use Macs for work all day, every single day. Given that you are somewhat prone to exaggeration :

I usually have the entire Adobe CS open, FTP Clients, Mail, iTunes, Extensis, plus about 50,000 more apps at once

I'll allow others to evaluate the seriousness of your contribution for themselves. I've already shared my opinion.

Regards

TD

Oh Terence, did my use of hyperbole throw you for a loop? OK Apple forums, for those of you like Terence who need a little more clarity, I do not literally have 50,000 apps open at once.

look below: And today is a slow day because it's still a holiday, which is why I'm even of the forums right now.

softwater wrote:

Mass market users want safety and simplicity over configurability

Actually, I'm not even sure this is true. It's certainly the narrative that's been pushed ever since July 20th in various discussions about Lion.

Whether its a reflection of actual customer desire or just a marketing attempt to leverage the popularity of iOS devices towards selling more Mac (Book Air) computers is still an open question to my mind.

Did I call you silly? My metaphor was simply that: a way of characterising my point of view. Sorry if my lapse into whimsey confused you. I'll try and speak more simply in future. I enjoyed this grand pronouncement:

On the other hand:

Professional users needs configurability and control over the OS

No they don't. Professionals care very little about the OS. All those accountants, doctors, lawyers, teachers, consultants, authors and so on are all working in their various applications (and most of those are actually databases - go figure). I base that assertion from my actual experience of the various clients I work with.

So, you really shouldn't make grand pronouncements - unless you can cite some research to back them up.

Terence Devlin wrote:

So, you really shouldn't make grand pronouncements - unless you can cite some research to back them up.

Oh no! 😟

If Ubuntu satisfies your needs, why not? It is a good and beautiful Linux os.

What sort of professional are you? I am a research scientist and I want to be able to control and configure my tools, and my computer is one of these tools. You underestimate the professionals' intellingence and facility with computers. Your attitude is also insulting, snide and immature. You come across as someone who speaks from a false sense of authority and experience. You might also like to know that the so-called new features in Lion are mostly just annoying or focused on directing the user to buy Apple media and apps. Professionals, in science at least, want a computer that is efficient, fast, capable, and intuitive, but this does not mean that we do not want configurability. We had this in Snow Leapord. It is missing in Lion.

jamesfromvenice wrote:

snip

We had this in Snow Leapord. It is missing in Lion.

You mean 'you' had it, I have upraded all of my production machines to Lion now, all are "efficient, fast, capable, and intuitive" usually more so!