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Very Serious iCloud + Pages Questions

I have a lot of anxiety about the way iCloud stores documents. The information from Apple is unclear. All I know is that documents will be stored in the app itself. That's fine if you only have dozen or so documents, but I have about 2,500 Pages documents, arranged in a clear and easy-to-use hierarchy of folders. I used SugarSync to keep the files and folders identical on all devices. So I have these questions:

Will iCloud give me the alternative of storing files in the file system, where they are easy to find?

If I choose not to use iCloud, will Pages continue to save documents in the file system? If it won't, I have to abandon Pages.

Will iCloud automatically import all the Pages documents from the file system into Pages? If so, will it move the files or create duplicates?

If there are duplicates, how will I know which copy of a file I'm opening?

How will I be able to find and delete duplicates? With 2,500 files, it isn't going to be easy or obvious if it's a manual procedure.

Will iCloud recreate the way I have organized my 2,500 files in the file hierarchy?

Will iCloud put my 2,500 files in one place and force me to reorganize them through a grueling manual process dragging them on top of each other one by one?

Will iCloud allow me to have only one level of folders, as in the iPad version of Pages, LaunchPad, and the first Macintosh? There's a reason why Apple abandoned a flat filing system on the Macintosh in the 1980s; that reason is still valid today.

What does iCloud do if a Pages file requires files of a different type, such as JPEG files, or needs to be stored in the same place as files of a different type, such as the Word, Pages, and plain text version of a resume?

If iCloud destroys the way I've organized my files, what happens if two files with different content in different parts of the file hierarchy have the same name?

Obviously I can't use iCloud for documents until I know the answers to these questions, or I risk a huge mess.

iMac 24-OTHER, Mac OS X (10.7)

Posted on Oct 5, 2011 1:38 PM

86 replies

Oct 12, 2011 9:26 PM in response to Sjazbec

That was enough reassurance before the release, but now it is out and there is no information at all about how to use it and what happens if you do.

Oct 12, 2011 9:38 PM in response to Kenneth Collins1

It syncs everything in Pages, on whatever device you enable it on, to iCloud. The folder structure in the Cloud mimics what you have in Pages on your iPad. The same folder structure and documents will then be conveyed to any other copies of Pages you link with iCloud. This doesn't apply to the Mac. None of the Pages stuff on your Mac will sync to iCloud. Are you saying you have 2,500 Pages documents on your iPad? If so all of these, in whatever folder structure you have them arranged in on your iPad, will be synced to iCloud. Then, if you were to open Pages on your iPhone or another iPad, all of these documents will be pushed into that device (assuming you use the same iCloud account on both devices). If you change, delete or move any of the files on one of these devices all of the other devices content will automatically change to match. Every version of Pages will have the same documents, in the same state and folder structure at all times. Nothing will change on your Mac, this is still fully in your control. Every item on your Mac must be manually uploaded to iCloud, from there it will be synced to all of your iOS devices. However, none of the changes you make on your iOS devices will show up on your Mac unless you manually transfer a file to it.

Oct 12, 2011 9:47 PM in response to Kenneth Collins1

People here are giving you straight answers. Nothing changes on your Mac. None of the Pages files on your Mac go into iCloud. iCloud only syncs documents between iOS devices. If you make a new document on your Mac, it stays on our Mac. There is no bulk upload of all your documents. It is so much more simple than you are imagining. Make a document in Pages on your iPad and it will show up in Pages on your iPhone. The Mac stuff is not part of the equation. It will not sync stuff from your Mac. In this regard nothing has change from before iCloud. The only difference is documents now sync between iOS devices.

Oct 12, 2011 9:49 PM in response to Kenneth Collins1

It's ironic because iCloud was developed for techno-tards like yourself and you can't even figure out that it won't mess up your file structure. Lol.

Sjazbec

Level 4

1,674 points

Oct 12, 2011 10:11 PM in response to tPet

tPet wrote:

Um ... WHAT web interface .. all I see at iCloud.com/iWork is a sell job on getting the iOS versions of the iWork apps.

yes you need to buy these apps of course. Did you think they were free ?. When you have them on iOS you can start populating the iCloud with your letters,spreadsheets and presentations. Then when you next login to icloud.com you download them to your Mac ( or PC ) either in their native formats or Microsoft or Acrobat formats.

That is how it works, yes. ( And I never said that the iWork version on the Mac had integration of iCloud. I also don't see that coming ). versions 1.5 are IOS versions, not Macintosh versions.

One could also skip to have iwork09 on a Mac. Office 2011 or OpenOffice will do the same in respect of "download manually and open in application that is capable of the formats used .

Gary437

Level 1

17 points

Oct 12, 2011 10:48 PM in response to Sjazbec

The fact that the documents feature on iCloud requires use of one or more iOS mobile devices is a huge disappointment. I own no iPod Touch, iPad, or iPhone, but I do own two Macintosh computers--a MacBook and a Mac Mini--for which I had hoped to synchronize documents so that I could work on a Pages document on my desktop computer and then carry that file with me on my laptop. So now instead of a laptop, even a MacBook Air, I must buy an iPad in order to take advantage of this feature?!! Clearly iCloud reflects a plan by Apple to focus on mobile devices to the detriment of its computer line.

simon56

Level 1

0 points

Oct 13, 2011 1:28 AM in response to Sjazbec

Sjazbec wrote:

That is how it works, yes. ( And I never said that the iWork version on the Mac had integration of iCloud. I also don't see that coming ). versions 1.5 are IOS versions, not Macintosh versions.

Why? How is this a satisfactory situation?

Sjazbec

Level 4

1,674 points

Oct 13, 2011 2:36 AM in response to simon56

I have not said it is satisfactory. I have only said how it works. Without a "vote". Please a bit of neutrality.

iCloud has been made with mobile sync in mind first. OSX is only "one other device".

The focus of Apple is clearly iOS and mobile apps. Just look what they have pushed out all yesterday : All new ( and free ) iOS5-Extra Apps and all the iCloud stuff . OSX just got its mandatory point-release and the Desktop photo apps are now frontends to watch the photostream coming from the iDevices..

Only facts, not "satisfactory".

I myself enjoy the iPod solution and can live with the way the documents are treated. We will get an iPad soon, and then the sync engine makes totally sense in my household. But even now I can use it, as I am often on public pcs - and via icloud.com I could get to my files that way ( if I needed to and did not have my iPod with me ).

iWork09 on the desktop can be used for editing, for printing, for transfer to iCloud manually ( sync with itunes, over wifi and it will then be importable in iOS iwork via file-open and thus land in the cloud once it has been openend in the idevice ) .

There might come a update later that adds iCloud to Desktop OSX iwork - *might*. But then again they would need to re-do the prefpane and set some "shared folder" on OSX that will auto-synced.

Just wait and see how that turns out.

simon56

Level 1

0 points

Oct 13, 2011 4:11 AM in response to Sjazbec

Sjazbec wrote:

I also don't see that coming

This is an opinion.

I was merely asking whether you thought this outcome would be satisfactory.

tPet

Level 1

14 points

Oct 13, 2011 5:36 AM in response to Sjazbec

You misunderstand .. (or most likely I wasn't clear enough in my complaint) ..

Trust me, I'm a big believer in paying for what you use. But in this case, I don't need to buy the iOS versions simply because at this time I have no iOS devices (yes, I'm the only one left) ...

I do go back and forth between Mac computers though .. home, onsite, Mom's house .. etc. I was hoping that the Mac iWork apps would sync docs via iCloud so I wouldn't have to remember (and lose, as sometimes the case) flash drives .. or use that cumbersome iWork.com beta system. Dropbox works okay ... but that involves changing workflow habits as well.

Hopefully, we're not too far away from the long-awaited iWork '11 (iWork '12 maybe at this point) ... which , fingers crossed, will offer full iCloud capability.

Oct 13, 2011 5:41 AM in response to simon56

Well, it is definitely not satisfactory. A lot of people, I included, have been led to believe that we would now have the prefect syncing solution for all iWork-documents on all devices, be they of the iOS-kind or the Mac OS X-kind, but to my disappointment, I have found out today that it is not so. I cannot see that this has come through clearly earlier. What has come through, is the talk about a perfect syncing solution. Yes, perfect if you only work on iOS-devices.

But thanks to Kenneth Collins for the tip about SugarSync. Seems like that is the solution, then. Seems like that is what Apple should have done instead of this poor joke. I am sorry, but I am quite irritated here as I had been waiting for this for awhile and really looked forward to it, but this is a downer. Downloading and uploading a document for each change you make? Are you serious)

I have given them feedback on this and suggest that others do it as well:

http://www.apple.com/feedback/pages.html

Oct 13, 2011 5:53 AM in response to dignanmorse

\dignanmorse wrote:

It's ironic because iCloud was developed for techno-tards like yourself and you can't even figure out that it won't mess up your file structure. Lol.

I learned BASIC on a TTY terminal with a phone modem and a paper tape punch in my apartment in 1972. I owned an Apple II when it came out. I owned a Radio Shack model III, a Kaypro, and NEC with a 386X, a homebew, Dells, and now iMac, Macbook Pro, iPhone, and iPad. The iPad can do more than the mainframe I used in 1972. I worked for a mainframe company using a Macintosh II in the course of my job. I can program in PHP, C+, and VisualBasic. I don't think I'm the one you mean by a techno tard, but I can see how it seems that way.

The problem is this. The mobile device has a flat file system. The Macs have a hierarchical file system. Does it forget the loation of the file in the middle? Does it put files from one Mac in the locations that I choose on the other Mac or in some chaotic grab bag of files? Apple's marketing information implies the terrifying scenario.

I need to know what happens when I flip the switch before I flip it. Will it make a mess of everything? Apparently not. Will it allow me to put things where I want them? Apparently so. Is it harmess to try it? Apparently so, but the advertising from Apple does not give me any confidence, and people here aren't concrete enough.

Does iCloud only sync documents between iOS devices? Apparently so. Are files and their locations on the Macs preserved? I'm unclear on that. Is the only way to move files between Macs and iOS dragging and dropping them onto a web site? If that's the case, it's wonderful.

Someone seems to have included the files on their Mac. How did you do that? Are they in a flat file system on the iPad and in your usual file system on the Mac?

HOW does one do all this stuff?

Does Apple have post-apocalyptic plans for screwing up my files on my Mac by storing them by file type inside the apps?

Oct 13, 2011 6:07 AM in response to Kenneth Collins1

The only way to get a file from your Mac into iCloud and Pages on your iPad is to open up iTunes (or the iCloud web interface) and manually add the particular file(s) you want. It does not transfer folder structure to the iPad as the path structure is different. As far as between Macs goes, nothing will change. Each Mac will stay as it is now, there is no Mac to Mac, or Mac to iPad syncing. If you want something on you iPad you have to add it manually as a single file (or group of autonomous files). Doing so will simply copy a version of the file(s) to your iPad. It will not create any kind of two way connection between your Mac and iPad, or two Macs. Add a file to iCloud, it shows up on your iPad/iPhone. Want a file from your iPad on your Mac, open up iTunes (or the iCloud web interface) and download a copy to your Mac. There is no syncing. You can go ahead and turn enable iCloud on your Mac and nothing will change with regard to your files. The only effect will be between iOS devices. I suggest you enable document syncing on your iOS devices only to start, this will give you an idea of how it works. Even if you do enable it on your Mac, nothing will change as there is no iCloud sync functionality built into the Mac counterpart of the documents in the cloud.

Sjazbec

Level 4

1,674 points

Oct 13, 2011 6:26 AM in response to tPet

From Apple Help:

iCloud keeps your documents up to date across all your iOS devices and on icloud.com. Every time you edit a Keynote, Pages, or Numbers document on your iOS device, your changes are automatically available on your other iOS devices set up with iCloud and on the web at icloud.com.

I think this says all. The Mac Desktop side is not included and this is the way Apple is communicating it, see above..

simon56

Level 1

0 points

Oct 13, 2011 6:30 AM in response to Sjazbec

No, it doesn't say it all at all.

Very Serious iCloud + Pages Questions