No iCloud on Snow Leopard? THIS IS A JOKE, APPLE!

softwater wrote:

Apple's SLA for Lion says you are allowed:

Now what makes this vague is that this is the SLA for Lion bought from the App store, but it says 'Apple Software' being run on a virtual machine under Lion. Therein lies the confusion.

Until Apple clear this up, the situation remains open to interpretation.

Mr Softwater, you may do as you wish

CSound, I don't understand the purpose of your last post. I'm interested in knowing the answer, I have no vested interest in defending one view or the other (I run SL and have Lion on an external disk, so it affects me not a jot).

It just seems to me that all those who says it's 'illegal' haven't been able to show anything that clearly states as such. Moreover, since we all know there are many committed Apple users who have a problem with Lion not supporting PPC apps, I don't see why you and others are so keen to deny them the right to solve it in a way that Apple has not definitively ruled out.

Incidentally, just to explore this a bit further, I can't see for what reason Apple would explicitly include permission to run up to two virtual instances of Lion on a machine that runs Lion. What would be the point of that? Surely, isn't there at least some reasonable ground for supposing that the whole point of adding that clause about running virtual machines was to allow users to run their old (bought and paid-for) OS's on their i(bought and paid-for) Apple machines running their (bought and paid-for) copy of Lion?

None of the currently available VM software supports it, not Fusion, not Parallels and not Virtual Box, I don't care to speculate on why they all include support for Snow Leopard server but not Snow Leopard client.

You stated that before. I pointed out that's a technical issue about whether it can be done or not; it's not enough to support your bold assertion that people are in violation of their licence agreement. Moreover, Michael pointed out that at least one build of Parallels 7 does support it.

But enough. This is just going round in circles.

softwater wrote:

I don't see why you and others are so keen to deny them the right to solve it in a way that Apple has not definitively ruled out.

You are wasting your time here. There are discussions and there are arguments. It's pointless to try to reason with someone who likes to argue.

In any case, I do agree that you have raised some valid points on the VM issue.

softwater wrote:

You stated that before. I pointed out that's a technical issue about whether it can be done or not; it's not enough to support your bold assertion that people are in violation of their licence agreement. Moreover, Michael pointed out that at least one build of Parallels 7 does support it.

But enough. This is just going round in circles.

It is

You should do as you wish, obtain an earlier Parallels (or Fusion, version 4.0) and run Snow Leopard, you will not be able to update the VM software but hey, what does that matter. I choose not to, so let's leave it at that.

I guess we need to erase all of drives with cloned backups...

I'm guessing that Csound1 always does the speed limit, makes a full stop at all stop signs and only crosses the street at designated crossing.

Personally I'll do what I want with stuff that I've paid for and is for my personal use.

I've hacked my original AppleTV to have AirPlay. I've ripped the guts out of a G5 iMac and turned it into a picture frame that runs a slide show of my pictures. I replaced my dead Magsafe power adapters and batteries with a cheap Chinese knockoffs. I only use non Apple mice with my computers. I even painted one of my Macs pink which must violate some end user agreement.

TZ wrote:

Personally I'll do what I want with stuff that I've paid for and is for my personal use.

You don't own your copy of Snow leopard, you bought a license to use it under Apples terms.

So I guess you never go the limit and blow through the stop signs, I'll make sure to use the designated crossing in future.

Csound1 wrote:

So I guess you never go the limit and blow through the stop signs, I'll make sure to use the designated crossing in future.

I live in southeast Florida. I don't think anyone here does the speed limit on our expressways and so many people here do rolling stops at stop signs that cops stopped writing tickets for it. Haven't had a traffic ticket in decades and have a little star on my drives license for being a safe driver.

I also often jaywalk.

capaho wrote:

In any case, I do agree that you have raised some valid points on the VM issue.

What's even more interesting is that re-reading that SLA again it nowhere specifies or defines that the term 'the Apple Software' only refers to Lion. Indeed, quite the opposite. The document is titled

SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT FOR MAC OS X* For use on Apple-branded Systems

(not, note, MAC OS X 10.7).

*emphasis added

Csound1 wrote:

You should do as you wish, obtain an earlier Parallels (or Fusion, version 4.0) and run Snow Leopard, you will not be able to update the VM software but hey, what does that matter. I choose not to, so let's leave it at that.

Well, maybe you are just arguing for the sake of it then. I already told you about two posts back that I'm running SL natively so it doesn't concern me directly (nor do I have any PPC programs to worry about).

I'm interested in the answer because I'm often asked about this issue and I wouldn't want to be giving people the wrong info (like telling them they're in violation of the SLA when they're not, or vice versa).

Substitute 'they' for 'you'

The topic of this thread is "No iCloud on Snow Leopard..." which incidentally, I agree with that sentiment that I would like to see iCloud work on Snow Leopard. It doesn't and I will bet dollars to donuts, that Apple will not release a version that will.

My Grandmother's Model-T Ford still gets her to the grocery store, but cannot be used on one of our Freeways (no, she doesn't have one. bless her soul!).

I now have Rosetta working on my Mac Mini 2011 and can access my Quicken Deluxe 2002 every day, as needed.

The elimination of Rosetta in Lion will cause many Mac users to seek an alternative to Quicken. I am not interested in being a pioneer in this area. The extra year or two that I can squeeze out of Quicken will afford me the opportunity to pick and choose from their research in this area when I move to a substitute.

This is not the first time I have had to move to new home finance software: I started with Home Accountant on my Apple //+, then moved to Time is Money on my Apple //c, then Quicken on my Mac SE/30.

I saw some concerned people on this thread who had a problem: running Rosetta programs. I gave them a solution.

I am not here to continue pointless arguments.

If someone figures out how to run iCloud on Snow Leopard and posts it here, I might return and add to that discussion. Until then, in the words of Edward R. Murrow...

Good bye and good luck!

I agree about the fact iCloud is not on Snow Leopard being a real problem. For various reasons I'm not upgrading to Lion, the first time I haven't upgraded to a new OS since I started with Macs in the 80s. I'm staying with Snow Leopard and unfortunately reconsidering all my options since Apple doesn't seem to care about it's Mac users anymore. iOS is nice for what it is. I have an iPhone and an iPad. My macs for different things and should not go down that same road.

But what really irritates me is that Apple supports the last 2 windows OSes. So basically they will support Microsoft's customers, but not their own.

From what I read lately, Lion adoption has slowed to a crawl, and that is just based on who bought Lion. As we know from experience, many bought it and decided to stay with Snow Leopard. The majority of their customers are on Snow Leopard or earlier. But I guess the Mac customers just don't cut it anymore. They just care about iOS and Windows !

I agree with your point about Apple supporting Windows over Mac. What exactly do Windows users need to get to iCloud? A control panel. That's it. There is no way Apple can't release something like that for those of us still on 10.6. How come I can have full screen apps and the App Store on Snow Leopard but not an iCloud preference pane? The reason I even still use 10.6 because I need Rosetta. Sorry, there are just some legacy apps that have no modern equivalents. Believe me, I would loooove to upgrade to Lion, I've been upgrading Macs since since System 6. But now I'm forced to stick with Snow Leopard (which isn't even as old as Vista?!?!) and forget about syncing all of my iOS 5 devices with my Mac. Unbelieveable.