Level 1

134 points

Re: Does anyone recommend OS X Lion?

... I went back to Snow Leopard (for that amongst other reasons).

Wow, was that a relief, by the way. Never really appreciated how good it was till I nearly lost it!

As someone who really wanted to love Lion -- I downloaded and installed it on my Air the very first day it became available, and chucked it three weeks later after my fried Air finally was returned to me -- I have to say the same thing. I came back to Snow Leopard reluctantly, but after reinstalling and using SL attentively, the relief I experience not having to futz over this and that and make allowances for this and for that has been palpable.

So far, the only compelling case for its existence is iCloud, and it's not for me. I like more personal control over my data.

As for Keating's continuing verbal assaults on anyone who dissents with him/her, these Forums are not the only place people have expressed concerns about Lion. It's rated 3.5 stars in the Apple Store. When I see a 3.5 star-rated app in MacUpdate, I skip it unless there is a really compelling reason why I must get it (like, there's no other option available). Most knowledgeable users do. On the other hand, some people are experiencing faster speeds with Lion -- no substantiation on that count so far, but it's possible and besides, totally subjective in terms of use -- so to each his or her own. I'm happy for you, because reinstalling Snow Leopard after Lion messes with your file structures is no fun.

I'm really eager to see what's next after Lion. That will be the telltale whether Apple is still in computers or whether it's become a consumer electronics firm. If the latter, I hope it will spin off a heavy-user division. (Are you reading this, Tim Cook?)

MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.6.8), Apple User Since 1981

Posted on Oct 12, 2011 3:22 PM

40 replies

UK-Max

Level 2

290 points

Oct 14, 2011 11:28 PM in response to Michelasso

Michelasso wrote:

Kittenmommy wrote:

UK-Max wrote:

In fact that doesn't happen. I tried it with 'Contacts' having first copied my contacts book elsewhere in case it was deleted. It wasn't. I think the dialogue box is misleading. Items, it seems, aren't removed from your Mac as threatened, but simply removed from the iCloud process of continuous update to other devices.

Good to know. Thanks! ➕

I am afraid that is not totally correct. If one chooses the option to remove the contacts from the Mac, they are gone (locally). To get them back one must resynch with iCloud enabling the contacts again.

Not sure about the Calendar. I have seen that having both iCloud and Gmail calendars they are independent. iCloud can't touch (nor see) the Gmail one and vice-versa. I just wonder what it is local. And if that (the local calender) will be forcibly removed once signing off the iCloud. I don't use iCal much, so I didn't bother doing an extensive testing.

Hi - I'm clearly doing something differently (?wrongly) then, because I've just tried the whole excercise again, and the files were not removed from my Macbook. I did it this time with iCal too.

They are no longer updating across my iOS devices, but they're most definitely still in place.

Bob Jacobson Author

Level 1

134 points

Oct 15, 2011 12:20 AM in response to Csound1

Bob Jacobson wrote:

So how can one sync their contact information now in Lion and other non-Lion but Mac computers? Also since I am only "tied" because I use me as an alternative but now major email address would I still be able to get to that email address thru a computer with only 10.4.11?

Try Synk or Chronosynch, both available on MacUpdate or in the Apple Store.

Synk & Chronsynch are file/folder sync machines, you could not use themto keep various address books on different machines synchronized.

They will not do what the OP wants.

Definitely right but possibly wrong, Csound. They are indeed folder/file synch machines. In fact, they are bidirectional folder/file synch machines. Which means (at least on Synk) that if you connect the folders in which Contacts reside on each of two or more machines, Synk will ensure they are kept in synch, in real-time. I believe that folder is:

/Library/Application Support/Address Book

In practice, I request Synk to keep my entire /Library folder synched between my machines. (I use a MBP as my desktop-laptop and my Air as my portble-laptop. The MBP is the machine on which I set up Synk scripts. But both machines send changes to the other.) /Library is a large folder but files in its subfolders change only infrequently, and since Synk transfers changes in real time, I don't notice a thing. Everything is just kept up to date.

Oops, I forgot: /Library is invisible under Lion. You'll have to make it visible to script the exchange. I don't use Lion, only Snow Leopard: thus, I haven't tried Synk between a Lionized Mac and a non-Lion Mac. The vendor (Decimus Software) claims that multi-OS exchanges are possible, but see for yourself. You can download Synk for free and give it a try before the trial period expires. The trial is a fully-capable Standard app. I'm using Pro because it gives me addiitional features.

I do the same for my Apple Mail, Smart Folders and On My Mac folders alike. The only problem is that Synk makes it too easy: I should be deleting these buggers instead of sharing them across two machines! I'm working on it.

Chronosynch has similar capabilities, but it doesn't run in real-time, only when you initiate an exchange (though you can time it to be automatic). I prefer my computers synching in real-time, without my having to pay attention. The burden on RAM is inconsequential on the MBP, totally negligible on the SSD Air.

putnik

Level 4

1,185 points

Oct 15, 2011 2:16 AM in response to UK-Max

I would not put anything up onto iCloud without first copying the data into a backup folder on my computer. including Address Book archive and .ics files from each calendar.

Please differentiate between logout (ie. "Close") in System Preferences and the session logout in Safari, for privacy on shared computers. The latter leaves working datasets on the computer, that will sync up to iCloud at the next login.

Calendars "On my Mac" in iCal do not sync to iCloud.

Oct 15, 2011 3:24 AM in response to Bob Jacobson

When it says 'Documents and Data' in iCloud settings..

What is it referring to? ALL pdf's and rtf's in my mac??!

I'm not familiar with the technical terms that are used in other posts above.

But is it going to remove every document ever created in my Mac, or just a select group in a particular section of my mac?

Thanks!

PS. I'm actually considering going ahead with the 'Remove from My Mac' option for Documents and Data if it's only a particular section that's going to be removed.

Message was edited by: sketchwish

softwater

Level 5

5,582 points

Oct 15, 2011 3:27 AM in response to putnik

Wow, this thread has been pruned from 150+ pages to just 3, with no OP....

Someone is really messing up with ASC right now. 😠

keats2010

Level 2

285 points

Oct 15, 2011 3:36 AM in response to softwater

And it appears to be more suited now to the iCloud forum. The old thread is still alive and well though I see and that confusing I think if may have imploded. Time for more specific posts anyway I suppose. Easier to address the individual's issues.

Cheers

Oct 15, 2011 5:53 AM in response to sketchwish

i believe that what I was referring to was (with rgds to my earlier post which i cannot edit anymore)

do Documents and Data refer to just iWork documents? (since i noticed that the main Docs app in iCloud was iWork)

Or actually all documents on your Mac desktop and Finder's Documents folder? (because it does say 'signing out from iCloud will remove all Documents + Data from your Mac')

Could someone please clarify on this? Thanks!!

Csound1

Level 9

60,143 points

Oct 15, 2011 6:13 AM in response to Bob Jacobson

Bob Jacobson wrote:

Bob Jacobson wrote:

So how can one sync their contact information now in Lion and other non-Lion but Mac computers? Also since I am only "tied" because I use me as an alternative but now major email address would I still be able to get to that email address thru a computer with only 10.4.11?

Try Synk or Chronosynch, both available on MacUpdate or in the Apple Store.

Synk & Chronsynch are file/folder sync machines, you could not use themto keep various address books on different machines synchronized.

They will not do what the OP wants.

Definitely right but possibly wrong, Csound. They are indeed folder/file synch machines. In fact, they are bidirectional folder/file synch machines. Which means (at least on Synk) that if you connect the folders in which Contacts reside on each of two or more machines, Synk will ensure they are kept in synch, in real-time. I believe that folder is:

/Library/Application Support/Address Book

The OP stated

"So how can one sync their contact information now in Lion and other non Lion but Mac computers?"

And you want to recommend this method to keep different versions of Address Book in sync? Bad advice Bob

Oct 15, 2011 1:16 PM in response to Michelasso

Michelasso wrote:

Bob Jacobson wrote:

I suspect that when people get clued to the reliability and privacy implications of iCloud (and cloud computing generally, for other than nonessential e-commerce applications), many will not be pleased. Most Apple customers will relegate their data to iCloud without a thought, choosing the freebie system over personally managed reliability and security. Smartphone usage has trained them well. Once there are millions of dependent users, if there are problems, the negative ramifications will be severe, worse than nattering about Lion. Just sayin'.

Not going to use iCloud for Photo Stream or Documents&Data. Which are the 2 guys eating space and thus tying us to Apple, eventually requiring a fee in the future. Also Apple had the nice idea to make a mandatory removal of their local data (and of the Calendar. The contacts instead will be left alone. Don't ask me why) when disabling iCloud. That's IMVHO atrocious.

I even wonder if that is legal. The EU antitrust may have something to say against it. And I don't care if one can easily bypass this mechansm backip up the data. It's the principle behind to be wrong.

Mmm.. so you are still going to use iCloud right? just without Syncing Documents+Data and Photostream turned off yea?

I'm asking because after reading through the numerous posts here, there seems to be so much "dislike" over iCloud that I'm confused as to whether or I should sign in (again). Yep, I signed out of iCloud thankfully not having any important documents or calendars on Mac.

So should I by "right" be signing up with iCloud and having it available there for whenever I use it (just switching off the Docs and Data and Photostream), or should I just wait and see for now?

Confused..Puzzled.

Oct 16, 2011 5:02 AM in response to Bob Jacobson

I had my concerns about the security and accessibility of my data in iCloud. Now reading this forum I see I'm not alone.

Mac OS Lion is starting to hide more of the file system from the user, probably for ease of use, but that could be severely restrictive if it goes too far.

As for iCloud, I'd love the convenience of my iOS and Mac machines being kept easily in sync, but I think Apple has not been clear enough about data ownership and security. For example, in it's iCloud security document http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4865, it says that Notes are secure when sent over the internet, but it does not include them in the list of data types that are encrypted whilst at rest on its servers. Other types of data, however are listed there.

Is apple just assuming that it wouldn't occur to most users to ask about this, and that the rest of us can go to ****?

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Re: Does anyone recommend OS X Lion?