Logic 7.2.......Well I guess no posts = good news :-)

Ok, TYVM mattrixx.

the percentage of Logic users that use Score being very small

this is the thing that gets me a little hot under the collar. i suspect that that is the perception but it is far from reality. the reality is the percentage og logic users who know how to make a fuss about the bugs that bother them in the score editor is very low.

i can assure you (and i know you are the poor innocent messenger in this circumstance) that of the colleagues i know who are busy pros and that use logic ie all of them, they all use score for their sessions to a greater or lesser degree. because of the bugs and limitations with the score editor, they have to farm the orchestration work out to specialist orchestrators who transfer the logic work to sibelius. this takes time and money, something which is often in short supply by the time producers have tinkered with edits before the record.

we get the work done - somehow. but it is unfair for the score editor to have been prioritised so low for so long. don't these guys do market research?

if they are looking for beta testers for the score editor in logic, i'll put my hand up. i know the score editing features and formatting in logic backwards.

michael, you are an absolute champ. thanks for this inside line. this is the kind of info i wish they would make official. it certainly gives me hope. the score in logic, although missing features and is buggy, is well designed in that the work flow for it is really efficient.

i was having a wee laugh with the abbey road thing. it's just that you were living in maida vale which is where the studios are. if you'd recorded there you could have slept in longer....

I want to echo Rohan's sentiments.

Notation was always one of Logic's most attractive features. It's the very thing that attracted me to Logic's predecessor, Notator (for Atari). I've been writing my charts on Notator/Logic beginning in the late 1980's. I can't stress enough how important this feature has been and continues to be for me.

IMO, Logic files could become an accepted standard for submitting scores to film companies, as is now the case with Sibelius and Finale, but not in the state it's in now.

Based on what I've read over the past few months, Rohan and others have producing sophisticated scores on a routine basis. More than any other time in the past, I now have opportunities to write complex orchestral material for which scores have to be provided IN ADDITION to the usual MIDI mockups. I'd really love to be able to do it all in Logic, and I'm now at a crossroads... My choices are:

1. Struggle with Logic to produce my scores efficiently (that is, without strange behaviors and debilitating bugs, many of which have been explained in various of this forum's posts, particularly Rohan's).

2. Spend $500 on another program such as Sibelius or Finale (and include in my life's-too-short schedule, the learning curve)

3. Spend $ ??? on a professional copyist who already knows Sibelius or Finale

Option 3 is starting to sound good, though, depending on the complexity of the score, may significantly reduce the overall profit I can make on a project.

Option 2... Eh, like I said, life's too short. Learn yet one more program? I'd rather go for a walk in the woods. Clean my attic. Learn to dowse for water.

Option 1... I already know Logic and I'm comfortable with most of its Score editing facilities. I take great pride in being able to present charts to my players that are professional looking and as error-free as possible -- something which I can control because within Logic I can HEAR the chart as well as fine-tune it's appearance. I've already invested years of time learning the program...

If only Logic was more efficient to use in Score mode, didn't exhibit stupid buggy behaviors, and incorporated a modicum of new features, I'd have no second thoughts.

ditto

Perhaps there's some combination of screensets, windows or folders that you use in your working method that's causing this?

I have observed over the years that when at first using a program willy nilly you can crash it easier than after you have adopted a constrained activity set. After a while the program trains you to "Don't do that or this will happen" After using it for several years you forget as it becomes just the way you use the program.

If I go at Logic with abandon which is how I used to beta test another DAW for several years I could surly crash it without a problem.

The worst thing you can do in my opinion is to add features while existing bugs are present. When testing for 6 years I saw a reluctance to do a major feature REV until they had killed virtually all exisiting bugs in the database.
Of course people complained that the features were coming to slow but at least the software has a great reputation.

The interaction in the code is complex and even bug fixes in one place can cause unexpected problems in another. So when you add features on top of existing bugs you are asking for trouble.

The beta pool is not diverse enough or the programmers are getting trumped by marketing.

I'm reading this thread with interest because I've never experienced the majority of these problems, and I'm cranking away all day with this program. This:

<<<Perhaps there's some combination of screensets, windows or folders that you use in your working method that's causing this?>>>

did remind me of the strangest bug Logic ever had, in which inserting meter changes in a tune would cause the machine to crash when it got to them ONLY IF YOU HAD A VERTICAL TRANSPORT on the window you were using. Don't ask me why, but it was 100% replicable and took forever to find, though only I and a couple other people ever wrote about it. That was in Logic 6, haven't noticed if it persists, but things like that make me wonder what's specific to those who are having problems like the instrument drop-out one, which I've never had once...

Now that's out there! Curious, does this still happen with Logic 7? If so, which version are you using?

Most of the problems I described above continue to bite me in the @ss. And I've had to adjust my working stule to accommodate (read: avoid) the bug that moves the song start point by 1 measure. But aside from that and other bugs, I must say that I find Logic 7.1.1 to be quite stable.

I'm not ready to update to 7.2 or change anything else about my system just yet, though like many people I'm keeping my eye on reports about 7.2's performance.

Cheers!

I still have my modular Oberheim 2-voice (very custom job)

I remember Tom bringing the prototype of his revolutionary 2 voice synth down to show me how we could now play TWO NOTES AT ONCE!

In those days people were afraid of the back room of our pro audio shop filled with analog sequencers and synths. You were truly a special and strange person who waded into programming sounds in those days.

It was so magical!

I remember standing there in our control room looking at the newly released 8 - count them - 8 track Otari recorder sitting with a sound workshop board and a 4 voice Oberheim thinking "Someday all of these things will be in one Big console"

Little did I imagine...


Dual 1.25 G4 MDD Mac OS X (10.4.4) I am feeling old today

You imagined good! Very good!

Yup, "duo-phonic". LOL! But when some later synths appeared sporting 4 voices, somehow the 2-voice polyphony almost seemed more viable to me. After all, when you have 4 you really want 5 😉

And the Otari 8-tracks and Sound Workshop boards... ah... I can remember them well. I still miss the smell of analog tape, don't you?

How about that Polymoog baby!

I don't miss waiting for all the analog decks to sync up though.

======================================

While in those days I wasn't afraid of modulars and Putneys and the likes, for some reason the polymoog intimidated the h3LL out of me. But later when I found out it generated sound from a divide-down oscillator scheme, all of a sudden it felt more approachable. Now there's a little convoluted analog neurosis to ponder (or not!!!).

Analog decks syncing up... I with you, don't miss that at all, or them darn Lynx's.

🙂

Analog decks syncing up... I with you, don't miss

that at all, or them darn Lynx's.

Analog decks syncing up = audio driver reboots when instruments stop playing.
Clunky video chasing via SMPTE = Quicktime updates causing hardware trouble
Tapes breaking when brakes malfunction=DAW crash with lost data.
Running out of tracks and havin to bounce=core audio overload and having to bounce.

the more things change, the more they stay the same.
Amin

Regarding the "sids" thing. Interesting, because this issue isn't limited to Logic. It happens in Cubase and also V-Stack (on the PC).

woah! interesting!

could you create a new thread outling what you know on this? put SIDS in the title. there will a lot of people who would find this very interesting. most people thought it was a logic issue.

I really hate to add another reply to this thread, but I guess a couple of things to add and a few things to confirm...

for those who ARE using 7.2, MIDI automation to a Multi Instrument is still only going through channel 1, correct?...(I.E. using a plugin such as Kontakt and being able to send CC info to all 16 separate plug-in channels)...or have they improved this?? if so, I"m sold on it!

to confirm the SIDS problem...this is instrument drop-out that causes Logic to crash, yeah? (I've experienced this myself, and are more careful with usage of plug-ins and loading sounds...this seems to be a problem particularly with the Native Instruments Kompakt player...I haven't had a crash with Kontakt2 or Atmosphere or Stylus RMX)

in response to a few things...

-does apple care?...I'd like to think so, but i'd agree that marketing can win over many things.

-does apple hear us? Yes, maybe not from us directly, but from some pro users (particularly in Southern California). I know some folks that DO have access to the Logic programmers. Of course, I can't get to them, but I'm ok with that because I know that there are some heavy-hitters trying to voice issues.

-Does Logic really have more problems than other programs?...Absolutely...
but, I think that this is because they're trying to do more than other programs...I'm tempted to start comparing software, but that's a waste of time right now, and we all know how all of these DAWs work. Point is, I think that if Apple continues to support Logic, and we continue to ENCOURAGE improvement, then there's no real death for the program.

...something that I REALLY don't like about Logic...the Dongle (DP doesn't have a dongle, FCP doesn't, Motion doesn't, DVD studio pro...etc...)

As for workarounds...I just spoke with another Logic user the other day...he customizes the environment to make everything work....it is VERY time consuming, and it really kills the creative process, but...I think that that's really cool!...are there any other programs out there where you can get under the hood and customize your work environment?


Josh