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Level 1

106 points

Mixing HDV with XDCam

Everything has been captured. The original film was shot in HDV ... to which I want to add a bunch of XDCam footage. The show is amost finished (edited on a HDV timeline).

I'm planning to run the whole show through Color for grading at the end, and will be trying to make it look as much like film as possible, or at least trying to get the 'video' look out of the HDV footage.

Wondering what my best options would be?

My first inclination would be to create a ProRes 422 HQ timeline and drop the HDV with the XDCame right into this timeline to output the show as ProRes 422 HQ. The HQ may be overkill I realise.

Just wondering if anyone else might have some ideas...?

Ben

Posted on Feb 23, 2012 10:33 AM

Best reply

Studio X

Level 7

27,229 points

Posted on Feb 23, 2012 10:59 AM

Convert to ProRes LT. Keep in mind how crippled HDV is by its 4:2:0 chroma subsampleing and original data rate (3.6 MB/s). LT is a full 10 bit format and will give you plenty of headroom in Color.

You can use Media Manager to make the conversion for material already edited.

Convert the new before importing it into FCP.

------

If you are doubtful about using LT instead of HQ, do a test.

Export a short HDV clip from FCP in LT and the same one in HQ.

Bring them into Color.

Apply the same grade and render them out.

Bring them back into FCP in a ProRes HQ timeline

Put them side by side on your 10 bit capable reference monitor.

• can you see a difference?

Layer the two clips in the timeline with a difference matte.

• can fcp see a difference?

View in context

28 replies

Ben Low Author

Level 1

106 points

Feb 23, 2012 12:47 PM in response to Michael Grenadier

Thank you Michael,

I find it fascinating sometimes, what one can miss, or not absorb. Basics sometimes.

I've got credits on hundreds of films, and in every capacity – producing, directing, writing, shooting, scoring, editing, mixing etc. At one time or another I've made a good living at all those different crafts. And I'm continually humbled by what I don't yet know. Even basics.

That's why I love the forums.

Feb 23, 2012 12:49 PM in response to Studio X

So you wouldn't want to change your pixel aspect ratio using media manager, right?

Ben Low Author

Level 1

106 points

Feb 23, 2012 12:51 PM in response to Studio X

This is great X,

Very helpful. I will watch for how I set the output from Compressor ... make SURE I'm not just sending it straight through.

Ben Low Author

Level 1

106 points

Feb 23, 2012 12:55 PM in response to Michael Grenadier

Michael: "So you wouldn't want to change your pixel aspect ratio using media manager, right?"

I think that would happen automatically wouldn't it? If you were converting to ProRes 422 ... mmm ... no, you're right.

My friend was converting his to DVCPRO HD, which probably WOULD resize the frame.

I think X was just warning me in case I ended up with the rectangular pixels and was trying to shove them through Compressor to get a 1920X1080 MPEG-2 HD.

A good suggestion M. I will factor in a frame re-size when I convert the whole show using Media Manager.

Feb 23, 2012 12:57 PM in response to Ben Low

well let's see what studio x says, but I think that compressor rather than media manager is the way to change the pixel aspect ratio.

Studio X

Level 7

27,229 points

Feb 23, 2012 12:59 PM in response to Michael Grenadier

I'm reminded of the story of a ship Captain.

Every morning, at the crack of dawn, he rushed onto the bridge, opened the ship's safe, pulled out a piece of paper. He quickly looked at it, then put it back and locked the safe. This went on for years observed by the 1st Mate, who traditionally held the last watch of the night.

It so happened that during an electric storm at sea, the Captain was crossing the foredeck and was struck by a bolt of lightening. He died instantly. After proper ceremonies, he was buried at sea.

The next morning, the 1st mate, now responsible for the ship, found the combination of the ship's safe in the dead Captain's logbook as he was going through the ship's papers. He was curious about what happened every morning for as long as he had served on the ship and so walked up to the bridge and opened the safe. Inside the only thing he found was a very worn piece of paper. He opened the tattered, folded scrap of notepaper and read ....

Port is LEFT and Starboard is RIGHT.

------

Simple stuff indeed.

Feb 23, 2012 1:00 PM in response to Studio X

or the secret of my grandmother's chopped liver recipe, "never make enough."

Ben Low Author

Level 1

106 points

Feb 23, 2012 1:14 PM in response to Studio X

Port is LEFT and Starboard is RIGHT.

Exactly.

Nail on the head, Studio X.

Ironically, the main character in the film we've been talking about is a sailor (or rather, a songwriter who sails). And I get to go sailing with him. One of the perks of being a filmmaker. So I'm learning about Port and Starboard. Though unlike editing, where one gets to fix one's mistakes before mastering (after getting all kinds of useful help from the forum), one can't be indecisive about Port and Starboard on a sailboat, or one ends up on the rocks. Amazing how much more quickly I am able to remember the 'basics' when rocks are involved.

Studio X

Level 7

27,229 points

Feb 23, 2012 1:22 PM in response to Ben Low

I don't know that Media Manager has the equivilent of Frame Controls. I've not used it for this sort of stuff.

My mantra is "if you come to a fork in the road, take both". (thank you Yogi Berra)

Again, a little testing may make the path clear.

Feb 23, 2012 1:28 PM in response to Studio X

Media Manger doesn't have Frame Controls as far as I've ever been able to find, and I've certainly played around with it extensively.

So X and I have reached a consensus on this: Test both workflows if you're going to be doing any scaling (including changing the pixel aspect ratio).

Ben Low Author

Level 1

106 points

Feb 23, 2012 1:31 PM in response to Michael Grenadier

Thank you guys,

I will do some tests and report the results here. Shortly. Another couple of days cutting to get a final edit. Then I'll start planning the whole back end thing. And doing tests.

Merci bien X 100

Ben

Ben Low Author

Level 1

106 points

Feb 28, 2012 11:01 AM in response to Michael Grenadier

Hi X and Michael,

Media Manager seems to be doing the trick. Scaling doesn't seem to be an issue. I send the sequence to Media Manager, choose ProRes 422, 1920x1080, 30p ... and all the HDV clips are converted automatically, resizing included.

The bonus? I'm using a lot of SmoothCam on this particular shoot (all handheld, very solid, but with slight trembling from exhaustion on numerous shots). Previously I was exporting out the HDV clips to create new short master media clips that would not take hours to analyze ... bringing that new media back in and rebuilding the timeline ... etc. etc.

Now that all the clips are already converted to ProRes (with 2 second handles for safety), it only takes seconds, mintutes for SmoothCam to analyze the new clips. A Happy Camper I am.

Thank you guys for all your help...

Ben

Jan 31, 2014 9:41 AM in response to Ben Low

Hey Ben,

Off topic here, but I wanted to thank you for your suggestions in an old post on audio recording with a Zoom H2 in your closet. I was struggling with getting clean audio voice overs and your solution worked like a charm! This was a post back on Jan 2, 2010 and it's been archived, so I couldnt reply in that thread.

Could you contact me... I am doing a whiteboard video on easy audio capture and want to quote you. You can connect with me through my website, which is listed in my profile.

Thanks!

Christy

Mixing HDV with XDCam