Major UI Lag in Logic Pro 9.1.7 on OS 10.8?

Now and then you recognize that sales is more interesting than support. Bulk Products like iDevices generate more income than Macs with Pro products. I hope that the Pro customers which in some sense made Apple big are not forgotten at the end.

Thank you Fredo Viola for pushing for a solution!

Thank YOU, Nusskappe. It's really up to all of us to show Apple it's worth their energy. But I have to tell you, I'm not getting a good feeling. This senior technician was speaking rather heavily about Apple's shift in focus and it didn't seem like something that was possible to alter. We shall see...

Calculation

Let's assume that there are 100,000 Logic users around the world.

Let's assume that 10% of these users have the lag problem.

Let's assume that 0.1% of these persons poll for a solution.

If Apple only recognise this low amount of complaining users, we might be considered not to be important.

I guess that we cannot change the "what's important and what's not" policy of Apple. BUT - the lag issue is a major issue.

On every daily session I lose 30 minutes fighting with the lag issue. Beside this fact, creativity is suffering when you face a continous software problem.

I know my comments are not a big help to push for a solution. Perhaps someone from Apple reads this and start to think how frustated creative people can be when their main work bench does not work.

It goes deeper than that, imo. This issue apparently is not a Logic Pro issue, but a graphics issue in Mountain Lion. A great many professional apps have been effected by it. I just bought a Mac Pro and unfortunately the firmware on this computer does not support Snow Leopard. So what this tells me is that Apple is not making their Mac Pro for professional use anymore. I have invested sooooo much money in the Apple "pro" software and "pro" gear, as so many of us have over the years, even when Apple was on the brink of collapse, and they are no longer supporting it's professional usage. They should be held responsible.

Yes, since I only can stop Logic wirh a FADERPORT it is most probably a grafical issue in ML (already recognized in Lion). This could lead to the conclusion that another Sequencer/Recording software on an Apple device could face the same problem and this could lead us back to former DAWs, which I used to think are not that good as Macs.

''I guess that we cannot change the "what's important and what's not" policy of Apple. BUT - the lag issue is a major issue.''

Maybe it would be helpfull, if everyone is sending feedback to apple regarding this issue.

I just spoke to a premium reseller and received the information that the support for Pro users has been discussed with Apple for many years. In meetings with Apple, Apple states that they want to take care of Pro user needs but they do act like that. My contact is of the opinion that Apple has no interest in Pro users any more and will in the future increase the focus on the consumer market.

Perhaps this is the truth. Somehow we see this already but none of us is yet prepared to beleive that we have bet on the wrong horse.

Nusskappe wrote:

My contact is of the opinion that Apple has no interest in Pro users any more and will in the future increase the focus on the consumer market.

Tim Cook has stated that there are some good news for Mac Pro customers nxt year, and Apple has recently hired a number of new people to their pro audio team.

I eco the same fears I've read recently on this thread.

I received another email from a senior person in Logic's support department after once again inquiring about a timeframe to expect a fix. Here's the reply....

"I do not have an expected update plan as of now. I do apologize for the issue and appreciate your patience.

Thanks"

That's it. Copy and paste response from Apple. That's from a senoir person on the team! Wow. I think they're telling us what we need to know...just not what we want to know. You fallow me?

Ever since Logic went from a premium professional product at $499.00 to a "Prosumer" app available only on the app store for $199.00 something didn't feel right. I feared the same business philosophy shift that happened to Final Cut Pro X.

Don't know how many of you guys also do video editing along with Sound Design and composition but I sure do.

Final Cut Pro was THE tool of professional editors for years and years. Massively loyal users. The studio version was just over $1000. Then the new and improved Final Cut Pro X was released, only on the app store, for $299! The app was radically changed. Despite the rave reviews that dominate the "Apple" app store, the application is now a Prosumer app. Shiny, pretty and lots of special effects. Perfect for "professional" home made movies of birthday parties, graduations and back yard cook outs - AND affordable! The application mandates a workflow that is rediculous. The app moves with all the grace and agility of a 100 ton bardge. 15 editors in my city alone (all of which were die hard Final Cut users) have since swiched to other editing software. All of them. We couldn't get our work done. Too slow, too buggy, senseless iphoto like workflow, etc. etc. This decision in such a radical change wasn't bases off the Professional User market. It was based of the bottom line and a re-target in the market place in my and many others opinion.

Simple math.

If 10 professional editors in a city buy what was Final Cut Pro...that's about $10,000 for Apple.

But if you dumb somthing down, give it a pretty face, hype the crap out of it, and then only charge $299 for it?! The comsumer market is now the target....for a grand total of $29,900 for Apple in this exercise. $10,000 in sales or $29,000 in sales? It's not hard figure which one is favorable.

Sadly It's become obvious that the Professional Market, that was apples foundation and helped keep apple rising and profitable to become what it is now....is simply not "needed" concerning the bottom line anymore.

The fact that Logic Pro AND Mac Pro Towers stopped growing and evolving in 2010 is another scary, yet true fact. Yeah, yeah... Logic has had a couple updates blah, blah blah. I don't want to hear it. Those were just band-aids to keep the app "running" with the new operating systems being introduced. Period. With this latest system update, Logic being the same app as two years ago and the problems with Logic Lag now - illustrates proof that Logic's neglect has fianlly caught up to it. Logic is a back seat priority to Apple. Period.

All things said and done, it's a business decision. Sometimes we gotta take a hint. I loved Final Cut...but I had to let go and change....so I did. I loved Logic before Lion/Mountain Lion... Might have to let go of it too. It's just the way it is....yes it *****...but it is what it is.

As far as Logic is concerned...There are other "PROfessional TOOLS" that would absolutely love to be handed what was Apple's loyal Logic Pro user market.

Apple's doing what it thinks is best for Apple. Perhaps I need to do what's best for me? Giving up and pouting like a child? No...just taking the hint like a professional adult.

MadDog15 wrote:

Those were just band-aids to keep the app "running" with the new operating systems being introduced.

Hogwash.

http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2565?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US

I'd like to see Logic 10 ASAP as much as anyone else, but saying that no work has been done on the app just isn't true. And while it's sad to see this issue drag on so long, the fact that it has improved for some people is a sign that they are working on it. Some bugs are harder to fix than others, anything that is hard to reproduce is harder to fix. So if they say it's being worked on but they don't know when they'll have a fix, it's possible that they are actually working on it but don't know when they'll have a fix.

So definitely contact Apple about this and send them as much detail as you can. More info may help them find a solution that works for more people.

The difficult thing for Apple to come to terms with is professional programs need and deserve professional support not just user support forums. I've had clients call Apple and been told to come to this forum for support because they either weren't aware of a problem or didn't have a satisfactory answer. Logic 9 was released July 23, 2009 and while incremental updates included major improvements recent updates have been of the band-aid type.

Apple's lack of communication and the ability provide timely updates when problems do occur does in fact take some shine off the "Pro" moniker.

The other problem is piracy, when Apple dropped all forms of copy protection Logic became available on every pirate board... one of the two Logic based studios here in town uses a pirated copy, they offered it to me when I was there playing on someone's session. Sadly, i don't think Apple cares because the Mac is now the Logic dongle... what does it matter if it sells more hardware.. Apple is a hardware company after all.

Look at the messages on this board, Logic has already moved into the consumer arena, as the upgrade from Garageband... the new Logic users wants to record beatz using the built-in mic on his/her Macbook. It's a different Logic world than it used to be.

Poppycock.

http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2565?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US

A simple band-aid after Lion release. READ what was "fixed". Fixing things that are SUPPOSED to work normally isn't an update. It's an, "Ooops....sorry bout that....he's a band-aid" normal fix.

If history is an idicator, Logic X is feverously being worked on to fallow suit with Final Cut Pro X to round out Apple's new line of affordable Prosumer apps.

MadDog15 wrote:

Fixing things that are SUPPOSED to work normally isn't an update.

So bugfixes aren't "updates"? Only things that add new features? That's an odd definition of it, and out of touch with the rest of the world. And in case you hadn't noticed, this thread is about a bug that people need fixed, seems a peculiar place to downplay bug fixes.

Expand that full list, if those are "bandaids" that's a heck of a lot of them for an app that's supposedly abandonded. And the vast majority of them have nothing to do with OS versions, they're fixes for bugs that showed up on 10.6 and they're fixed on 10.6. A huge number of those could have gone unfixed as new OS versions came out.

If apple was going to abandon it (or dump it for a ground up rewrite like FCX), they wouldn't be doing updates like that at all, period. And if you look at what actually happened with FCX, it's not much of an indicator for the future of Logic.

Pancenter wrote:

Look at the messages on this board, Logic has already moved into the consumer arena, as the upgrade from Garageband...

A number pro users stay away from this forum becsue it seems some very active members here have too much time on their hands and use it only on doomsday speculation and negative comments. I wish this forum had a more 'active' moderation, because when people eg. talk about Logic going from "a premium professional product at $499.00 to a Prosumer app available only on the app store for $199.00" I'm really losing interest in participating in some of the discussions here. A DAW doesn't bcause a prosumer app because it' is sold via the App store or because th eprice is reduced by it's owners, which happen to have enough cash anyway!

But maybe certain others may get *more* interested by the endless negative specultion which happens betwen every Logic update (keywords: "prosumer", "GarageBand Pro", "Apple only focus on cell phones" etc)?

Such a low price on such a professional products of course means that lots of newbies will be drawns towards using Logic, including prosumers, consumers and young people who have never used a DAW beore. But that dosn't say anything about how 'pro' Logic is. 3+ years odl Logic still does stuff that no other DAW does.

Some people on some forums - usually people who don't have Logic as their main DAW, but who love to hang out in Logic forums and regularly explain why they prefer another product or why they don'tthink Logic is 'pro' enough for them - would *love* to see many Logic users move over to some other platform.

'Trolls' in forums nowadays work hard to convince others that they are not trolls - so they can keep trolling. One user here, however, here was very clear about his purpose: he encouraged others to spread as much negativity about Logic as possible on internet forums, so people would start to move other to other DAWs, with the apparent intention that this would make Apple work harder on fixing a Logic bug he had struggled with. And of course - if a few people say that Logic isn't 'pro' enough for them - often enough - some people (newbies?) will look at other DAWs - even of Logic works perfectly for them.

Some people definitely appear to try to create self-fulfilling prophecy by repeating that Logic is too consumer-oritented. Meanwhile, lots of pro users work on Logic every day, create music and make money, and never participate in these discussions. Don't confuse their silence as a vote for not-being-happy-with-Logic camp.