Major UI Lag in Logic Pro 9.1.7 on OS 10.8?

Technically, talking about developer preview versions of OSX is a violation of the developer NDA, regardless of whether it's positive, negative, or neutral.

Okay, keeping mouth shut!

Yep, that's a big reason for posts getting deleted.

https://discussions.apple.com/static/apple/tutorial/tou.html

Can someone tell me how to reproduce the issue? I don't appear to having the issue. Here's what I did to try and replicate it:

(On a small project with 9 tracks, originally made in GarageBand)

1. With the song playing and most of the tracks in action, open the Channel EQ plug-in and enable the Analyzer on one of the tracks. Move some sliders, change some settings, etc. No lag.

2. Open an additional Channel EQ window with Analyzer, move sliders, change settings, etc-- no lag.

3. Same as step 2, so that there are three Analyzers open-- no lag.

My system info might hold the key as to why I'm not experiencing the issue (assumming I'm trying to replicate it correctly):

- Brand new 13" Macbook Pro with Retina display (MBPr), i5 CPU, 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD.

- It's important to note the screen size, because these laptops don't come with the NVIDIA graphics card (only the integrated Intel HD 4000 component).

- OS X 10.8.2 (12C3103)

- Logic Pro 9.1.8 (1700.67) 32-bit

Laptop was purchased last week, purchased Logic today, downloaded the content packs, and loaded my GarageBand project. Before getting Logic today, the last time I used it was back in 2006. I'm just a hobbiest, certainly no Logic expert. If you provide steps for reproducing the issue please assume nothing about my knowledge of the app (be specific!)

Thanks!

Not everyone has this issue... and for many, it cannot be recreated.... It actually seems to affect only a relatively small of people (when you look at the total number of Logic Users) so don't be surprised if you cannot reproduce the issue. It took the Apple devs several weeks before they managed to repro it on one of their testbed setups...

Personally, I cannot repo the issue on any of my work setups or testbed systems... (2012 15" Retina MBP, 2012 27"iMac, 2011 27" iMac, 2011 MMS, 2010 MM, 2010 17" MBP to name but a few) no matter what I have tried.

I've seen it happening on a client's setup which was identical to mine and once we did a clone from my iMac to his, his problem vanished but as to what is the exact cause... is hard to say. It doesn't appear to be hardware related as such.. as some of my clients, who have identical hardware to mine have this issue (although the majority don't I might add)

More likely something, that simply doesn't get installed/updated correctly (or in the right order....)

RobertAnthony02 wrote:

Can someone tell me how to reproduce the issue? I don't appear to having the issue.

Try running the analyzer(s) in high resolution mode.

Forgive my ignorance, but I assume you mean changing the drop-down from "medium" to "high" in the Channel EQ plug-in.

That didn't seem to make a difference. I did notice that having multiple analyzers running did affect the framerate on certain track analyzers. There was one particular track that when the analyzer was open while others were open the framerate of the frequency wave (or whatever you want to call that moving line) was affected. I'm a long time gamer and programmer, and it seemed like a reasonable framerate drop to me. Interestingly, only that one instance of the analyzer experienced a framerate drop, while the others seemed unaffected by the fact they weren't alone.

The drop was probably something like 50%, and though that may not sound good, it was still smooth enough in my opinion to do whatever it is one does when they look at such a graphic. But again, when it was the only analyzer open it was very smooth (perhaps 60 fps, though it's hard to tell, obviously). The slow down only occured with that one track and even still, I imagine that most people wouldn't even have the eye to tell the difference. Certainly, I didn't experience any long delays, application freezes, etc.

I hope that my system is lucky enough to have avoided the circumstances necessary to make this issue occur. But I would like to try and recreate the issue if possible because if I can't, perhaps that very fact can help Apple get to the bottom of it. From what I've been reading, the Core Audio API is the believed culprit. If I do experience the issue, the only possible solution I know of going forward is to install the beta/developer release of 10.8.3.

It's pretty disappointing that this issue has apparently been around for a long time and response from Apple seems to be all but nonexistant. My experience with logic back in 2006 was nothing but positive, but it seems that things have changed. Hopefully in a week after using it again after all these years my opinion won't change.

RobertAnthony02 wrote:

Forgive my ignorance, but I assume you mean changing the drop-down from "medium" to "high" in the Channel EQ plug-in.

There should be a small drop down on the lower left of the channel EQ that has resolution listed... Low, Medium & High. Sounds like you found it.

I think you would know right away if you had it, you would be locked out of Logic's interface for a period of time.

Yeah, definitely don't have that problem. Well, if I do experience it I'll let you guys know.

Thanks

The Art of Sound, just want to ask... how do you know it's effecting a small number of users? Wouldn't that information come only from actually getting info from all users? Have you done so or found a place that has?

Freado, I agree. The Art of Sound's comment is really bad for this issue. If he would face the error, he would think diffrently. Why are people trying to reproduce the error instead of making music? Do you think this discussion is manipulated?

Nusskappe, (and Fredo)

Please note I didn't say it doesn't exist.. It certain does and for those it affects, it is really quite a serious problem but the reality is, it isn't something that affects everyone by a long way.... As I said earlier, I cannot reproduce it on any of my working setups or testbed systems (some 9 different setups in total) and only 6 of my Logic client base of 300+ have reported this issue which is quite a small percentage don't you think?

As I mentioned earlier... I have witnessed it 'live' on a client's system and couldn't resolve the problem for him, no matter what we tried. However, once I cloned my HD to his (he has an identical hardware/software setup to one of my working systems) the issue vanished for him... which again,. as I said earlier, kinda rules out any hardware related issue as such.

You have to remember, it may seem like it must be affecting more people than it really is. simply because it's only those that are affected that tend to post in threads like this, giving a somewhat false impression as to just how many people have this problem.. Those that don't have the issue aren't likely to be posting about it... so simply reading threads like this, doesn't give a realistic feel for the scale of it.

Again, I am not trying to diminish the importance of getting this bug fixed... I am simply pointing out the reality of the situation which helps towards explaining just why this has taken Apple so long to fix it... (along with the issue of actually working out what and which Dev team is exactly to blame!)

So...?

Your conclusion is...

----

I agree with you. I eat everyday and so does most of people around me so why bother about ethiopians and small bunch of others?

😉

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A of S, all I know is it's been at least 5 years that I've had major bugs in Logic Pro, and since updating all 3 of my computers to Mountain Lion all three separate computers have this lag issue, which is not even the worst of the bugs, btw. It's not constant, but when it happens (and it never should) it's excrutiatingly annoying and destructive. Furthermore, there are different kinds of users out there. Some use Logic a lot, like myself, and some use it less frequently. Some of your 300+ users are willing to make due with the lag issue therefore probably haven't complained to you about it. I'm just going to go by my experience, which is consistent on 3 computers. And just because the issue "vanished" on your client's computer doesn't mean it isn't still there. I've had a whole week with no lag end with a crushing 2 minutes of lag. It is a fact that there is this issue, it first showed it's head when Lion was introduced. (Based on threads I've read in the forums, I haven't had Lion on any of my machines.) It was made worse with the introduction of Mountain Lion, and when it does happen, it's a crippling bug. So whether it's effecting a large percentage (which, btw, is my belief based on my own experiences) or a small one, it should be remedied as quickly as possible. Apple have absolutely dropped the ball and it's very disturbing.

Fredo,

The 'bug' is actually quite easy to reproduce on a system that has this problem... and as I said, of my Client base, (all of whom are heavy users of Logic in studios etc) whom I asked to check... only 6 could reproduce it... and I had over 200+ replies to my request... The remainder.. who knows... but they tend to be pretty vocal when faced with such a problem so I would assume that either they don't have the issue or they don't use Logic in such a manner to notice the problem.

However, if you have this problem then you really do notice it quite easily don't you think?

I couldn't agree more with your comment about the 'ball being dropped'... We are on the same page you know.. in regards to this issue... but again, without knowing exactly how many people have this issue compared to how many people use Logic in total.. it's very hard to get a realistic view of just how widespread (or not) the issue really is and based on my own experiences.. it really isn't that widespread at all. It just seems like that due to the number of posts made by people who have this problem, which is quite normal indeed.

Example: A friend of mine is a Dev who released an app via the App store. In the first two hours after release he received over 20 complaints that the app did not work correctly and he thought there was a major problem with his app design and paniced majorily.. trying to work out what the heck had gone so wrong!

Turned out that the problem was being caused by people not reading the installation/usage notes he provided... Later, the next day when he looked at the total number of people who had purchased the app in the same period ( about 420 ) he realised the number of people having the problem was quite small and nothing like as widespread as he originally believed... though based on the emails he got in such a short space of time, you would have thought it was something that was affecting everyone to a degree.

So... Again, I'm sorry you (and so many others..including a few of my own clients) have this issue and really hope it gets fixed soon... because my clients who still have this problem, are driving me nuts and quite rightly so.. No one should have to wait this long for a fix to such an issue, no matter how many or how few are affected by it. My comments regarding numbers were simply made to help answer RobertAntony's original request/question and also help explain why for many, they cannot reproduce it.