Major UI Lag in Logic Pro 9.1.7 on OS 10.8?

Also, as a kind of aside....

In comparison, I had over 150+ of my client base complain about the "Airplay' issue.... (The annoying pop up window asking if you wish to use your Apple TV/Other Airplay device that seems to bug you every so often in Logic).

This 'bug' was supposed to be fixed in the latest updates but sadly for most of my client base who contacted me about this issue, that is not so and for some, who didn't have this issue initially, they (roughly 20) now do (as do I, I might add, on 5 of my systems!)

It's a minor annoyance compared to the Lag issue of course, but it is something I would have hoped, would have been properly stamped out by now and that plainly isn't the case... and given my own numbers, this bug seems to affect a much greater percentage of all users (who also have an Airplay device on their network) than the Lag issue does.

The point of this aside, is just to show that my client base does and will report such issues (very vocally at times!) if it affects them.... and this bug plainly does... much to my personal frustration as it's not fixable at the moment, in any practical way other than by turning off any/all Airplay devices on the same network.

I haven't had this problem at all, nor do any of my friends.

There's was also the possibility the lag issue is caused by the firmware version on certain machines. I guess this would be easy enough to correlate.

Anyway... since Apple was finally able to reproduce it there is definitely a problem and it was recognized and is being worked on which is a good thing. The lag issue is the type of problem that would only get worse and spread with new OS releases as more resources are used by Mac OS, if they can target it now the OS team will be more aware of such glitches in the future.

Do you have an Apple TV for example connected to the same network as your Logic Computer Fredo? If not... then you won't see this issue...because you don't have an Airplay (always on) device active on the network. Ipads and iPhones are slightly different as they are not "always on" in terms of Airplay I gather...

Hey guys, I'm not shure if this was allready mentioned by someone else but this whole lag thing on logic 9.1.8 appears to be much heavier when 2 TFTs are connected to my Macmini. As soon as I pull 1 TFT off everything run's quite good, still not as good as it used to be but way better. Anyone else experienced this?

Gr.

Roland

A few people had mentioned that on the original thread (back when this started happening on Lion). I think everyone who reported that difference eventually got it to happen on a single monitor as well. Currently I have a single 27" monitor and still have the problem, although not as frequently as when I had dual 24" monitors.

I've just got one monitor right now, and it's an NEC PA241W. I still have the lag issue as bad as when I had a second monitor attached.

The Art of Sound, if your figures would be representative, there should be 2% unhappy users. How many Logic installation do we have world wide?

How many users cannot join an english disussion?

If many of your clients are running clones of your setup, the % would be higer.

Anyhow, statistics are built diffrently.

Nusskappe,

I couldn't agree more...

I should add that only 3 clients of mine are running on clones of my setups... The point of my mentioning clones was to highlight the likelyhood it isn't a hardware issue because once systems with identical hardware to mine that have the issue... are cloned from my systems, the issue for those systems vanishes so it appears to be a software issue... as nothing else is changing in the process.

As I said, I am not diminishing the problem.. I am simply pointing out the scale of the issue is most likely not as great as it would appear based on my own experiences with my client base and the fact that normally only those with a problem, post up about it, which can easily give a false impression... and the fact is we don't know any real figures... so we are all guessing one way or the other.. I simply gave my own figures based on a very small sample of users that I know and have worked with over a long period of time..... and those figures may or may not translate across the entire user base... My 'guys' may just be very lucky or maybe it's because they are long term users of Logic for example and so their installation/upgrade paths and history are very different to those who have only started using Logic in the last couple of years... having said that, I know of several people who just freshly installed 10.8.2 and Logic 9.1.8 from the App store for the first time and have no issues at all.. and others have the issue doing the exact same thing so there must be other, stranger factors in play too (maybe which servers they get their installations from?)

Anyhow....Again, the whole point of my posting up my figures was to try and help answer the question by RobertAntony, who was asking why he cannot recreate or reproduce the issue on his system... and not to belittle the problem itself. I hope that is understood by one and all?

Ok, but it is a great, horrible and disgusting issue and Apple has not given the community one single official sign that they are really taking care of it. Personally I have to replace my 2008 Mac Pro within the next six months and I cannot rely on Apple SW (and HW?) anymore.

What would you suggest?

For what it's worth, I have yet to experience the issue. I've installed just one 3rd party plug-in (Sylenth) thus far, if that makes a difference.

Has anyone here that has experienced the issue try running Logic in 64-bit mode to see if that resolves it? (Or conversely, 32-bit mode if you're already running it in 64-bit mode?)

For those that may not know, you can do this by going to the properties (Get Info) of the Logic application icon.

Mine defaults to 32-bit mode. Changing this behavior didn't make a difference for me, but I figured it was worth a shot for you guys.

Nusskappe wrote:

Ok, but it is a great, horrible and disgusting issue and Apple has not given the community one single official sign that they are really taking care of it. Personally I have to replace my 2008 Mac Pro within the next six months and I cannot rely on Apple SW (and HW?) anymore.

What would you suggest?

That's a good question...

Firstly, don't assume you will have a problem becaue you may well not.. You might, but then again you might not and the odds are you won't based on my own epxeriences with my client base.

Secondly, I have a 'method' I use with every new Mac I setup for my clients that seems, for whatever reason to reduce the possibility of any issues. Why this works (or seems to work) I cannot say but so far, for example in the month of january, I did 9 setups for brand new iMacs and MBPs.. and not one had an issue after I was finished.

The 'method' is as follows;

1) I turn on the Mac stepping through the setup proceedure and check what version of OS X is installed. If it isn't the latest version I update it via Software updates.

2) I shut down the Mac and then start up it up using Option + R to access the recovery system...

3) I wipe the original System HD partition clean

4) I install the latest OS X onto that clean partition

5) I go through the setup routines for iCloud etc...

6) I then run GB and download it's Additional Content

7) I then restart the Mac normally and check everything is working fine so far.

8) I install Logic either from DVDs, Disk Images of the original DVDs or download from App Store (depending on which version my client has, if any)

9a) I then update Logic (If it was the DVD versions) to 9.1.5 using this link...

http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1519?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US

This link allows you to select the version of Logic you wish to upgrade to rather then going straight to 9.1.8 via Software Updates.

9b) If I had to use the App Store to download Logic then obviously it goes straight to 9.1.8 so nothing I can do about that....I also then do the Download Additional Content for the App Store version and let that all complete successfully checking twice to make sure all content has actually downloaded.

10) I now test Logic using internal sound (I do not connect any Audio or Midi interfaces at this point)

11) Assuming that went well.... I install any 3rd party Audio/Midi interfaces and drivers (making sure these are up to date and do work for the OS X and Logic versions we are using), restart the Mac and then test Logic out again.

12a) At this point I make a clone of the System Drive using either CCC or in my case, SuperDuper! to an external HD that i can use to restore a clean and working version of everything back on my HD if needed in the future.

12b) For DVD versions of Logic, this is where I will update to 9.1.8 and test again... If all is well, I'll make another clone. If not I'll use the earlier clone and go back to 9.1.5 and leave it there though so far, that has not been needed by me.

13) Now I will install 3rd party plugins ( a few at a time running and checking Logic every so often to ensure all is still well.) It is at this point that I also check that all 3rd party stuff is fully up to date and the right versions for the version of OS X/Logic we are using.

14) Finally I copy over my personal Data that I manually backed up from the old computer to either a thumb drive or ext HD. I never use MA or TM to achieve this.. I only use the manual copy method... I also only copy across the folders inside the main Documents/music folders and not the main Doc/Music/Picturefolders themselves as that can cause permissions issues I have found.

15) I test again... and if all is well, I make one more Clone of everything.. again for easy restore in the future if anything goes bad.

16) Now I will install any other non audio related apps etc.... and test once more... Though most of my clients only use the Macs for Music so most don't install anything else.

That's it....

Long winded i know (Typically I find it takes roughly 8-9 hours to do all this depending on the speed of the internet connection and the number of 3rd party plugins etc..my client has...) but as i said, i have found this to work... and for me and my clients.. a good few hours of careful prep work seems to pay off long term.. and as far as the last few months is concerned.. and works 100% of the time for me and different Macs etc.. Of course I might just be lucky.. or maybe those Macs wouldn't have had an issue anyhow but that is how I do it and it works for me and my clients.

HTHs...

Just to clarify, RobertAnthony02; we have tried both 32 and 64 bit mode. (Asking in a 32 page thread is mildly insulting to be quite honest as it's one of the first things anyone here would have suggested).

And it's not a CoreAudio problem. It's a Quartz/OpenGL issue. I'm not sure if it's Quartz2D or Extreme but it's most definitely an evolution of a bug that third party developers patched around in Snow Leopard.

I remember when I first upgraded from Leopard I had a very similar issue when trying to use Ohmforce Ohmicide before the update. Attempting to move any of the knobs on the interface would freeze Logic's interface solid for a good 3 minutes minimum (I kid you not) but until the point where you tried to move those knobs the interface would run completely fine. My theory atm is this: Ohmicide has a motion blur effect on the knobs and already had a spectrum analyser other graphical toys on the interface so I'm pretty sure it tapped into your GPU for rendering and that was somehow failing and causing it to lock up. Now Lion/ML is supposed to be entirely hardware accelerated whenever possible it seems that the software accelerated parts of L9 (original main interface) are suffering from the gremlins and Apple is refusing to roll the code back or add the capability to render L9 in software during the interim whilst it updates all this code.

A LOT of code is being updated either way, Logic 9.1.8 is smaller than anything I've ever had on my Mac. At 250ish MB thats a big gutting considering even Logic 8.0.0 was much bigger than that I'm sure.

Are the people with a brand new Mac of 2012 immuned from this lagginess?

Do u think apple is forcing us to buy a new Mac?

OS 10.8.3 seem eons to come, if ever.

No.. This issue can affect anyone using any Mac... with any combination of Snow Leopard (10.6.8), Lion or Mountain Lion and Logic 9.1.6 or later.... (and in some cases it affects people using earlier version of Logic too but those running Lion and Mountain Lion and 9.1.6 or later seem to have the greater likelyhood of seeing this issue.)

It doesn't affect everyone however.... There are a large number of people (Myself included) don't have a single issue running Logic 9.1.8 and Mountain Lion 10.8.2 no matter what hardware they run that combination on... so it is not related directly with any specific hardware itself.