How to prevent laptop from sleep when lid closed

ttripp1 wrote:

This is obviously not a CPU intensive task, so overheating is not something I would have to worry about.

The cpu is hardly the only component that can generate heat. Hard drives, be they conventional or solid state, generate heat when in use, as does the wifi radio when handling constant traffic. Just because the cpu may not be max'ed out does not mean there is no significant internal heat load that needs to be dissipated to the outside.

Veloslave wrote:

I am new to Mac...

So I guess a bit of humility in learning the intricacies of a mature system will go a long way.

But I have been in IT for long time and what is being asked for is not only SIMPLE but it has been industry standard in other OS's.

It is a free world. You are welcome to use any of the "other OS's" if the standard established with OS X does not suit you. Same can be said of any of the other secure OS's such as OpenBSD.

Trying to tell people (especially paternalistically) that it cannot or shouldn't be done is just plain silly. No one hear is suggesting closing a lid and then juggling with their laptop and a chainsaw at the same time... closing a lid, sticking it under your arm and walking to another office is not only simple but it is safe and responsible AND normal.

A mechanical HDD will be damaged if subject to shock or vibration when operating. That is why servers are kept in such protected environments. While extraordinary efforts have been made by drive manufacturers, the problem persists due to the nature of the device. And the cost of the hardening necessary reflects on the price of the devices. Fortunately, the dilution afforded by mass manufacturing has buffered this.

Just because Apple hasn't addressed it does not mean it shouldn't be done. When the first iphone came out "cut & paste" wasn't an option... was it because it shouldn't be an option?

Ever heard of the Sudden Motion Sensor? Apple had it implemented way before drive makers started integrating it onto their products. But even then, it is not a magic bullet; you can manage to outwit the component and cause irrepairable physical damage to the platters when moving an HDD in operation.

Power options should be user controlled and if someone is unfortinate enough to munch a HDD then it is their problem and they will learn. The rest of us will walk from room to room responsibly.

Sure, just sign a waiver exempting the makers from any responsibility towards the preservation of your data and you can go ahead and shoot self in foot. But since such a procedure is a logistic nightmare to implement, won't happen, especially in litigation-happy places like the USA.

Inlined...

Michael Black wrote:

ttripp1 wrote:

This is obviously not a CPU intensive task, so overheating is not something I would have to worry about.

The cpu is hardly the only component that can generate heat. Hard drives, be they conventional or solid state, generate heat when in use, as does the wifi radio when handling constant traffic. Just because the cpu may not be max'ed out does not mean there is no significant internal heat load that needs to be dissipated to the outside.

Agreed. But in my air-conditioned living room, with ample air circulation, I still don't see an issue. Though if I observe it getting really hot, then I'll treat it like an A-frame house and stand it up.

There are 100 reasons to NOT let the Mac run with the lid closed.... and about a handful of reasons for a handful of people to let the Mac run with the lid closed.

Liability, overheating, crashed HD heads, endless warranty claims on what is actually absent-minded abuse,...someone sticks it in their bag and the fan vents gets blocked, BOOM, toast, kaput 😟

Macbooks run hot as it is, and you want the potential for someone who doesnt understand laptop hardware to bag it, or stuff it somewhere......."whoops, i forgot it was still on!!" 😢,.....oh, it overheated and burned out the HD and toasted the fan bearings?!

Well, that must be a warranty repair (even though its actually ABUSE) .........bad idea for Apple to give that as an option.

For every ONE person that would use that option responsibly, there are 50 that would NOT understand why its such a bad idea, because its so easy to abuse that to the point of wrecking the macbook. None of you can logically and empirically disagree to that fact.

As a former laptop repairman, I've seen like new laptops destroyed in a matter of couple hours from them running high tasker APPS with the fan vent blocked....a few were nearly destroyed to the point of --"forget it, its toast, no need to repair it"

Veloslave, ....

Courcoul's response is both sensible, and very logical, and revolves around the common Macbook User, ....something you have not taken into account.

Your mistaken premise is that "all Mac users" (a bandwaggon fallacy) would use the Macbook as you use it, and would know its hardware limitations in packing it around closed but still on. However that isnt the case whatsoever. 99% of computer users dont know how parts interact, and the requirement for fan ducting, etc.

Statistically one would not want to introduce an option "10" people may use relative to "10,000" that may uwittingly use it and end up causing damage to their system.

You have stated wrongly:

Power options should be user controlled and if someone is unfortunate enough to munch a HDD then it is their problem and they will learn.

General power options ARE user controllable, .....but NOT advanced ones that introduce untoward risks and damage

Just because something CAN be done, does not mean it should be an option for the common Macbook user; logic, common sense, and real world experience dictates otherwise.

There are 10,000 tweaks /additions that can be made to the Macbook, however the INCREASED RISKS in doing so sometimes has adverse effects, and is something only known to a handful of people that eat, sleep, and live with computers on a daily basis.

Such "dangerous" options are for advanced endusers, and code writers, hardware experts, and certainly do NOT belong as default on an off the shelf Macbook 😍

@PlotinusVeritas, you're a silly guy! (or girl.)

Who ever said it would be a "default" option? Who ever said the option wouldn't include a clear explaination of the risks being taken?

This is not about statistics or how many people do or don't need an option. This is about forcing what someone can or can't do with their hardware. No one needs to assume anything. If Apple wants to warrenty it's hardware, they can just as easily put a warning in the power options clearly stating certain parts of said warrenty will be voided if you choose certain options. (Please don't fall into Apple's well known trap of tricking you into thinking you do not own the rights to your own hardware.)

An even better option than putting a warning in the software would be to fix the (flawed in my opinion) design characteristic that disables at least half the cooling abilities when the lid is shut. (What a bad idea in the first place! What kind of an engineer would say to himself and his collegues: "Lets put half the air vents where they will be blocked when the user closes the lid!"? That guy needs a good smack in the face.)

I think it's funny that you call things like "Put hard disks to sleep when possible" a "General" option, and things like "Sleep when the lid is closed" an "Advanced" option.

The biggest thing you're failing to note is that the hardware has built in heat sensors that will forcibly remove power when things get too hot. These kinds of safety measures have been in place for a long time on the hardware side and are not just failover measures, - they are relied upon.

@Courcoul, The moment Apple started making laptops with spindle disks in them is the moment they accepted the responsibility of disks getting jarred. At the same time, I'm not aware of any way in which Apple warrenties the integrity of your data. - So I fail to see how you made any significant point, although you did show your knowledge to everyone.

revacuate

A: Who ever said the option wouldn't include a clear explanation of the risks being taken?

B: they can just as easily put a warning in the power options clearly stating certain parts of said warranty will be voided if you choose certain options

C: hardware has built in heat sensors

A: Responsible companies dont create products for the consumer level that include multitudinous "usage warnings" Nor would it be a responsible choice to include such an option.

B: No company would opt for such a choice. People need to learn how to use their computers, not a fine print warning list "if you do this during normal operations, that will happen". Wiser minds and engineers prevail.

C: Heat sensor wont spike quick enough to compensate for a rapidly siezing fan bearing that has ducting blocked, this is a certainty. Nor do heat sensors compensate for shock from potential carry of a laptop where the HD heads are operating just under the SMS sensor threshold.

the SMS is designed for rapid-shock head parking, not for general movement during operation in which the SMS wouldn't be tripped yet head damage still possible. No conventional HD inside a laptop is designed for transport operation, or as meant your "close on go and transport" option.

For all these reasons and countless more, such is not a viable choice to be considered

@PlutinusVeritas

Lots of people are capable of moving a laptop gently, don't be rediculous. You cannot deny that physically moving the laptop while it's running is an expected use case senario, one for which it was built. (Simply having it on your lap will cause the head to experience extra g-forces, much less moving it from your lap to the table or vise-versa. - Think coffee shops, think business meetings, etc. Everyone does this. No more shock is experienced from a gentle carry-down-the-hall than from setting the laptop onto a table while it's running, or even from accidentally bumping that table while it's running.)

Since when did this one option we're talking about become 'multitudinous'? - You mad bro?

Since when do they make 'rapidly seizing fan bearings'? Maybe you're thinking of the 1980s? If the correct bearing is choosen it can withstand whatever heat is necessary to wait for a heat sensor that 'won't spike fast enough'. The heat sensors near the CPU operate in real-time and shut the whole mainboard down. - I think you're just close-minded and making this up to have something to flame about.

Everything you're saying here corroborates the idea that this is a fundamental design flaw on Apple's part. You shouldn't be able to cover up the heat dissapation vents.

Honestly, it's not a great idea to do that because when you close the lid on macs that is the time when disk optimization really kicks into affect. It's sort of like the defragmentation process on a PC. If the case that files start to fragment (which almost never happens on a Mac) when the computer is sleep that is when disk optimization will go to work. But I can not lie, there has been times where I was converting movies and I needed it to keep running when I was on the run with my laptop. This can be acheived using third party apps. There is 2 that I know of. I've used Insomnia which is a little app that when you activate it, it allows you to close the clamshell and it will continue to work. But what I noticed with that one is that it'll leave your screen on so you might want to make sure you set your display to sleep in a short amount of time on battery power. The other one is NoSleep. NoSleep actually gives you a couple of options and stuff to kind of be flexible which I didn't see on Insomnia. But I've only needed to do this maybe 2 time so...

I'm sorry, but I just have to jump in on this conversation. For all of those people that argue that it is a dangerous practice to run the macbook with the lid closed because of "heat" issues...why does the all-knowing and perfect Apple corporation let it run with the lid closed when a keyboard or monitor is connected? It sure seems that a lot of "heat" is going to get generated in all sorts of ways when you're working on high-end graphics programs or any other "normal" activity with those high-quality Thunderbolt monitors are attached. How does a keyboard or monitor help dissipate heat when connected and the lid is closed? Or how about those "wifi" connections that allow it to stay connected? The idea that "heat" is the reason for this design is a totally false argument from my point of view.

The only other argument is that it's bad for the hard drive to walk around while its running. That's true for spinning harddrives, but not for SSD. Even then, it's the potential for "dropping" the macbook that poses the greatest risk to the hard drive, not the casual bumping. In the case of a "drop", you've got much more serious issues with replacing your screen or other components than you do with your hard drive. Everything that's important on my HDD is backed up in cloud storage. So the only issue for me is part replacement and inconvenience.

So Please apple fanboys, get over the idea that "apple knows best". They assumed that if the lid is closed, then no work needs to get done unless something's connected to it (monitor, keyboard, wifi). That's a bad assumption for the many reasons listed by others in this chain. They put out a great product, but they sometimes overthing their inclusion automatic features (like turning off the wifi when the lids closed) or exclusion of options (like cut & paste or turning off automatic features like turning off the wifi when the lid is closed).

I like Asimov762's reply to this post..... its made THE most sense out of all of the other comments made here!

ALSO! i've found that "NoSleep" program has ABSOLUTELY been the easiest program to use to help me keep mi pooter from sleeping upon closing the lid!

just gotta remember to turn it off when im done keeping mi pooter on...

Loving it!!!

I'm not saying that you don't have a good point there but I will argue the fact that if you look at the life cycle of a let's say Dell, HP, Toshiba, etc and look at the life cycle of an Apple laptop then I will go with Apple's reasoning. This feature is off by default on windows laptops so it's has to be some good reason for it (for you anti-apple critics). I have no problem running a free 3rd party app to keep the laptop on when closed. It's almost like car manufactors that offer 5 year/50,000 mile powertrain warranty on their cars. In order to maintain that warranty you have to follow the OEM recommended maintaince schedule because they know if that regular maintenance is performed the chances of them having any major powertrain malfunctions is very very slim and in which it prolongs the life of the vehicle. Apple is the inventor is this product so they know it better than anyone. So, I will just follow continue to follow their advice.

The easiest way to do this is install a small utility called NoSleep. Some people use InsomniaX. They basically do the same thing. I prefer NoSleep. The app sits in your menu bar and you can turn it on and off as you please. When it's on, you can shut the lid to your Mac and it keep it from going to sleep. Check this article out. http://www.easypctutorials.com/keep-macbook-pro-awake-lid-closed

I have a SSD and would really like this option.

It's not a heat issue, it's not a disk issue, it's assuming that closing the lid means sleep; the same way flipping over a "smart" cover on an iPad means sleep.

However, I'm sick of leaving my lid cracked open to let iTunes finishing backing up and syncing my iPhone and iPad. It's dangerous to leave it open or cracked unattended, as a drop will much more easily wear and break the screen hinges before my SSD fails.

This is a poor design and best and I was hoping this forum would offer a command prompt fix, rather than flaming people that have legitimate use cases. Forums used to be for helping people, not telling them they and their ideas are stupid.

I will look elsewhere for a fix to this.

Urbananimal wrote:

I have a SSD and would really like this option.

...

This is a poor design and best and I was hoping this forum would offer a command prompt fix, rather than flaming people that have legitimate use cases. Forums used to be for helping people, not telling them they and their ideas are stupid.

I will look elsewhere for a fix to this.

I completely agree with this sentiment, and I don't understand why the community here has so much vitriol for anyone who requests simple options be made available in the settings. Running on the assumption that the consumer is a dummy with no common sense may be wise when coming up with default settings, but why hide options entirely from users who understand that running computers aren't to be shoved in bags?

As for my use-case: I bought a Macbook recently to replace an 8 year old IBM thinkpad which I have been using with a KVM switch with the lid closed. I think its age speaks to the fact that I have not been abusing the machine and might know a thing or two about how to operate and maintain a computer. With the Macbook, as soon as I would switch to the other PC on the KVM, the Mac would go to sleep - stopping whatever tasks I had initiated prior to swtiching to the other machine. There's no reason to hide this setting from users who wish to control it, and it shouldn't compel members of forums to come and attack individuals who are asking for this option to be made avalable. Is it that offensive to you that someone might have a use for a feature that you personally don't find necessary? I think most people with common sense would understand how and when to use such a feature so what's the harm in putting it in the settings with a clear explanation? There are other settings that come with a warning (e.g., Display Sleep - Never), so it wouldn't be absurd to include one more. Anyway... </rant>

NoSleep (mentioned by several posters in this thread) is working very well, and the screen does not turn on while it's closed, just keep the applications I have running going when I switch to my other computer with the KVM switch.