How to prevent laptop from sleep when lid closed

Jim for president!

I am new to Mac...

But I have been in IT for long time and what is being asked for is not only SIMPLE but it has been industry standard in other OS's.

Trying to tell people (especially paternalistically) that it cannot or shouldn't be done is just plain silly. No one hear is suggesting closing a lid and then juggling with their laptop and a chainsaw at the same time... closing a lid, sticking it under your arm and walking to another office is not only simple but it is safe and responsible AND normal.

Just because Apple hasn't addressed it does not mean it shouldn't be done. When the first iphone came out "cut & paste" wasn't an option... was it because it shouldn't be an option?

Power options should be user controlled and if someone is unfortinate enough to munch a HDD then it is their problem and they will learn. The rest of us will walk from room to room responsibly.

I'm considering purchasing a new Macbook Pro (switching from an all-Windows life).

I keep my laptop in the living room, usually have it leaning up against my couch or chair with the lid closed. But one thing I do quite often is download or upload large files (whether it be a new 2+ gig download from MSDN or uploading a big HD video from my video camera to YouTube). I start such an upload/download and close the lid, put it back into its resting place and walk away. I don't want to leave the lid open sitting on the floor where the cat can walk ontop of the keyboard, or someone might kick it, or something else. It's just too convenient to close the lid and put it out of the way while it does the work.

This is obviously not a CPU intensive task, so overheating is not something I would have to worry about.

I still want to buy it... I'm ready to move away from Windows. Just glad I found out about this beforehand. Would hate to resume my habits only to find out it did nothing while I closed the lid. The sharing of the internet connection sounds like my best bet... just would of course protect it so no one can get in it.

ttripp1 wrote:

This is obviously not a CPU intensive task, so overheating is not something I would have to worry about.

The cpu is hardly the only component that can generate heat. Hard drives, be they conventional or solid state, generate heat when in use, as does the wifi radio when handling constant traffic. Just because the cpu may not be max'ed out does not mean there is no significant internal heat load that needs to be dissipated to the outside.

Veloslave wrote:

I am new to Mac...

So I guess a bit of humility in learning the intricacies of a mature system will go a long way.

But I have been in IT for long time and what is being asked for is not only SIMPLE but it has been industry standard in other OS's.

It is a free world. You are welcome to use any of the "other OS's" if the standard established with OS X does not suit you. Same can be said of any of the other secure OS's such as OpenBSD.

Trying to tell people (especially paternalistically) that it cannot or shouldn't be done is just plain silly. No one hear is suggesting closing a lid and then juggling with their laptop and a chainsaw at the same time... closing a lid, sticking it under your arm and walking to another office is not only simple but it is safe and responsible AND normal.

A mechanical HDD will be damaged if subject to shock or vibration when operating. That is why servers are kept in such protected environments. While extraordinary efforts have been made by drive manufacturers, the problem persists due to the nature of the device. And the cost of the hardening necessary reflects on the price of the devices. Fortunately, the dilution afforded by mass manufacturing has buffered this.

Just because Apple hasn't addressed it does not mean it shouldn't be done. When the first iphone came out "cut & paste" wasn't an option... was it because it shouldn't be an option?

Ever heard of the Sudden Motion Sensor? Apple had it implemented way before drive makers started integrating it onto their products. But even then, it is not a magic bullet; you can manage to outwit the component and cause irrepairable physical damage to the platters when moving an HDD in operation.

Power options should be user controlled and if someone is unfortinate enough to munch a HDD then it is their problem and they will learn. The rest of us will walk from room to room responsibly.

Sure, just sign a waiver exempting the makers from any responsibility towards the preservation of your data and you can go ahead and shoot self in foot. But since such a procedure is a logistic nightmare to implement, won't happen, especially in litigation-happy places like the USA.

Inlined...

Michael Black wrote:

ttripp1 wrote:

This is obviously not a CPU intensive task, so overheating is not something I would have to worry about.

The cpu is hardly the only component that can generate heat. Hard drives, be they conventional or solid state, generate heat when in use, as does the wifi radio when handling constant traffic. Just because the cpu may not be max'ed out does not mean there is no significant internal heat load that needs to be dissipated to the outside.

Agreed. But in my air-conditioned living room, with ample air circulation, I still don't see an issue. Though if I observe it getting really hot, then I'll treat it like an A-frame house and stand it up.

There are 100 reasons to NOT let the Mac run with the lid closed.... and about a handful of reasons for a handful of people to let the Mac run with the lid closed.

Liability, overheating, crashed HD heads, endless warranty claims on what is actually absent-minded abuse,...someone sticks it in their bag and the fan vents gets blocked, BOOM, toast, kaput 😟

Macbooks run hot as it is, and you want the potential for someone who doesnt understand laptop hardware to bag it, or stuff it somewhere......."whoops, i forgot it was still on!!" 😢,.....oh, it overheated and burned out the HD and toasted the fan bearings?!

Well, that must be a warranty repair (even though its actually ABUSE) .........bad idea for Apple to give that as an option.

For every ONE person that would use that option responsibly, there are 50 that would NOT understand why its such a bad idea, because its so easy to abuse that to the point of wrecking the macbook. None of you can logically and empirically disagree to that fact.

As a former laptop repairman, I've seen like new laptops destroyed in a matter of couple hours from them running high tasker APPS with the fan vent blocked....a few were nearly destroyed to the point of --"forget it, its toast, no need to repair it"

Right out of the fanboi idealism 101 manual.

Great use of cut & paste

Veloslave, ....

Courcoul's response is both sensible, and very logical, and revolves around the common Macbook User, ....something you have not taken into account.

Your mistaken premise is that "all Mac users" (a bandwaggon fallacy) would use the Macbook as you use it, and would know its hardware limitations in packing it around closed but still on. However that isnt the case whatsoever. 99% of computer users dont know how parts interact, and the requirement for fan ducting, etc.

Statistically one would not want to introduce an option "10" people may use relative to "10,000" that may uwittingly use it and end up causing damage to their system.

You have stated wrongly:

Power options should be user controlled and if someone is unfortunate enough to munch a HDD then it is their problem and they will learn.

General power options ARE user controllable, .....but NOT advanced ones that introduce untoward risks and damage

Just because something CAN be done, does not mean it should be an option for the common Macbook user; logic, common sense, and real world experience dictates otherwise.

There are 10,000 tweaks /additions that can be made to the Macbook, however the INCREASED RISKS in doing so sometimes has adverse effects, and is something only known to a handful of people that eat, sleep, and live with computers on a daily basis.

Such "dangerous" options are for advanced endusers, and code writers, hardware experts, and certainly do NOT belong as default on an off the shelf Macbook 😍

@PlotinusVeritas, you're a silly guy! (or girl.)

Who ever said it would be a "default" option? Who ever said the option wouldn't include a clear explaination of the risks being taken?

This is not about statistics or how many people do or don't need an option. This is about forcing what someone can or can't do with their hardware. No one needs to assume anything. If Apple wants to warrenty it's hardware, they can just as easily put a warning in the power options clearly stating certain parts of said warrenty will be voided if you choose certain options. (Please don't fall into Apple's well known trap of tricking you into thinking you do not own the rights to your own hardware.)

An even better option than putting a warning in the software would be to fix the (flawed in my opinion) design characteristic that disables at least half the cooling abilities when the lid is shut. (What a bad idea in the first place! What kind of an engineer would say to himself and his collegues: "Lets put half the air vents where they will be blocked when the user closes the lid!"? That guy needs a good smack in the face.)

I think it's funny that you call things like "Put hard disks to sleep when possible" a "General" option, and things like "Sleep when the lid is closed" an "Advanced" option.

The biggest thing you're failing to note is that the hardware has built in heat sensors that will forcibly remove power when things get too hot. These kinds of safety measures have been in place for a long time on the hardware side and are not just failover measures, - they are relied upon.

@Courcoul, The moment Apple started making laptops with spindle disks in them is the moment they accepted the responsibility of disks getting jarred. At the same time, I'm not aware of any way in which Apple warrenties the integrity of your data. - So I fail to see how you made any significant point, although you did show your knowledge to everyone.

revacuate

A: Who ever said the option wouldn't include a clear explanation of the risks being taken?

B: they can just as easily put a warning in the power options clearly stating certain parts of said warranty will be voided if you choose certain options

C: hardware has built in heat sensors

A: Responsible companies dont create products for the consumer level that include multitudinous "usage warnings" Nor would it be a responsible choice to include such an option.

B: No company would opt for such a choice. People need to learn how to use their computers, not a fine print warning list "if you do this during normal operations, that will happen". Wiser minds and engineers prevail.

C: Heat sensor wont spike quick enough to compensate for a rapidly siezing fan bearing that has ducting blocked, this is a certainty. Nor do heat sensors compensate for shock from potential carry of a laptop where the HD heads are operating just under the SMS sensor threshold.

the SMS is designed for rapid-shock head parking, not for general movement during operation in which the SMS wouldn't be tripped yet head damage still possible. No conventional HD inside a laptop is designed for transport operation, or as meant your "close on go and transport" option.

For all these reasons and countless more, such is not a viable choice to be considered

@PlutinusVeritas

Lots of people are capable of moving a laptop gently, don't be rediculous. You cannot deny that physically moving the laptop while it's running is an expected use case senario, one for which it was built. (Simply having it on your lap will cause the head to experience extra g-forces, much less moving it from your lap to the table or vise-versa. - Think coffee shops, think business meetings, etc. Everyone does this. No more shock is experienced from a gentle carry-down-the-hall than from setting the laptop onto a table while it's running, or even from accidentally bumping that table while it's running.)

Since when did this one option we're talking about become 'multitudinous'? - You mad bro?

Since when do they make 'rapidly seizing fan bearings'? Maybe you're thinking of the 1980s? If the correct bearing is choosen it can withstand whatever heat is necessary to wait for a heat sensor that 'won't spike fast enough'. The heat sensors near the CPU operate in real-time and shut the whole mainboard down. - I think you're just close-minded and making this up to have something to flame about.

Everything you're saying here corroborates the idea that this is a fundamental design flaw on Apple's part. You shouldn't be able to cover up the heat dissapation vents.

Honestly, it's not a great idea to do that because when you close the lid on macs that is the time when disk optimization really kicks into affect. It's sort of like the defragmentation process on a PC. If the case that files start to fragment (which almost never happens on a Mac) when the computer is sleep that is when disk optimization will go to work. But I can not lie, there has been times where I was converting movies and I needed it to keep running when I was on the run with my laptop. This can be acheived using third party apps. There is 2 that I know of. I've used Insomnia which is a little app that when you activate it, it allows you to close the clamshell and it will continue to work. But what I noticed with that one is that it'll leave your screen on so you might want to make sure you set your display to sleep in a short amount of time on battery power. The other one is NoSleep. NoSleep actually gives you a couple of options and stuff to kind of be flexible which I didn't see on Insomnia. But I've only needed to do this maybe 2 time so...

I'm sorry, but I just have to jump in on this conversation. For all of those people that argue that it is a dangerous practice to run the macbook with the lid closed because of "heat" issues...why does the all-knowing and perfect Apple corporation let it run with the lid closed when a keyboard or monitor is connected? It sure seems that a lot of "heat" is going to get generated in all sorts of ways when you're working on high-end graphics programs or any other "normal" activity with those high-quality Thunderbolt monitors are attached. How does a keyboard or monitor help dissipate heat when connected and the lid is closed? Or how about those "wifi" connections that allow it to stay connected? The idea that "heat" is the reason for this design is a totally false argument from my point of view.

The only other argument is that it's bad for the hard drive to walk around while its running. That's true for spinning harddrives, but not for SSD. Even then, it's the potential for "dropping" the macbook that poses the greatest risk to the hard drive, not the casual bumping. In the case of a "drop", you've got much more serious issues with replacing your screen or other components than you do with your hard drive. Everything that's important on my HDD is backed up in cloud storage. So the only issue for me is part replacement and inconvenience.

So Please apple fanboys, get over the idea that "apple knows best". They assumed that if the lid is closed, then no work needs to get done unless something's connected to it (monitor, keyboard, wifi). That's a bad assumption for the many reasons listed by others in this chain. They put out a great product, but they sometimes overthing their inclusion automatic features (like turning off the wifi when the lids closed) or exclusion of options (like cut & paste or turning off automatic features like turning off the wifi when the lid is closed).

I like Asimov762's reply to this post..... its made THE most sense out of all of the other comments made here!

ALSO! i've found that "NoSleep" program has ABSOLUTELY been the easiest program to use to help me keep mi pooter from sleeping upon closing the lid!

just gotta remember to turn it off when im done keeping mi pooter on...

Loving it!!!