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Level 2

384 points

aggregate device issues in ML

Hello

I am finding that there are new bugs in the core audio aggregate device in Mountain Lion

One concern is that the new way that the aggregate device is built does not allow you to change the order of the interfaces in the aggregate device. That said, Logic does not allow you to adjust what the "stereo out" pair is, so now logic defaults to the wrong outputs from the get go.

Logic, btw, coudl lean a lot about I/O naming for the hardware from the way MOTU Digital Performer does it. They have a naming grid that is flexible, works great, and my naming continued to work from the previous OS to Mountain Lion even though the interfaces in the aggregate device are now listed in a different order than they were before.

Also, of similar importance is the fact that there are issues and a breakdown of the aggregate device when running at the 96k sample rate. It works "ok" at 44.1, but fails at the higher sample rate. Seems to be a weirdness surrounding the clocking.

Of note is that there is now crackling when listening to audio directly through the hardware now, and this used to work fine in Lion. I understand that the manufacturer of my audio interfaces has been in touch with Apple and that something with the core audio buffering is the culprit.

I've been in regular contact with the audio hardware and software folks, but some of this comes back to Apple. Maybe I count as a power user by actually taking advantage of the core audio aggregate device that they have had for a few OS's now, but I really need this to work. It has recently been broken, and the change in how the aggregate device orders the interfaces makes it sort of impossible to use Logic as the wrong outputs are unchangeably set as the "stereo outs". While I will continue to work with the manufacturers on this, mostly action on Apple's part is needed to get new bugs in the core audio aggregate device fixed. (and allow Logic users to select the stereo out, not just default it to the first two outs on the first interface)

Any help, and quickly, most appreciated.

Mac Pro, OS X Mountain Lion (10.8.2), 20 gigs ram, 8 TB HD,

Posted on Sep 20, 2012 5:53 AM

30 replies

leuroj

Level 1

10 points

Mar 19, 2013 2:33 PM in response to nvssm

I/O is under Utility in the Channel plug in menu.

nvssm

Level 1

10 points

Mar 19, 2013 2:48 PM in response to leuroj

What is the "Channel" plug in menu? What "Utility"?

I have a feeling you're talking about some specific application, which is not really a workaround for those of us not using that specific application.

leuroj

Level 1

10 points

Mar 19, 2013 2:51 PM in response to nvssm

I'm talking about Logic 9 as listed at the bottom of my first post.

nvssm

Level 1

10 points

Mar 19, 2013 3:03 PM in response to leuroj

Oh ok...."Logic 9 Duet" did not register to my eyes as the Apple Logic Pro product 😕

As it happens, the application I use (MaxMSP) has the built-in ability to do complete remapping of all channels since it uses "logical DAC channels") but that doesn't help anyone who isn't using that product (or also using other products). It's ironic that the biggest casualty of this problem is Apple's own Pro application.

Paul Kavicky Author

Level 2

384 points

Mar 19, 2013 3:20 PM in response to nvssm

Yup,

The I/O plug for Logic is a weird way to work around a system bug in the new implementation of the core audio aggregate device. Just strange in so much as it used to work properly, so this new behavior in dealing with aggregated interfaces was obviously not thought out. I'm not primarily in Logic, esp since this issue, so that work around mostly doesn't help me. I stand by the original thought that I need Apple to get it's own core audio aggregated device to function at least as well as it used to. The unavoidable system placement of devices into a numerical order doesn't allow me to control the default output interface as seen by numerous DAWs and programs. Seems like it would be easy to fix, too. Or possibly even improve.

Also, having Logic allow a user to specify a different stereo out other than the first two channels of the first interface in the aggregate device would work, but that is an inflexibility within the current version of Logic. Looking forward to that finally getting fixed in an update as well.

Paul Kavicky Author

Level 2

384 points

Mar 19, 2013 3:21 PM in response to Paul Kavicky

BTW - see MOTU's DP for a wonderful implementation of how to do I/O assignments and naming and even internally aggregate interfaces for maximum efficiency. They have that pretty right. Apple would do well to essentially copy that implementation. I haven't seen better.

Apr 11, 2013 3:14 PM in response to Paul Kavicky

Hey guys, i'm rearranging my studio tomorrow to an aggregate arrangement, theres a few bits i'm not too sure on here.

First off - i know it depends on your set up, and as i say, i'm yet to set mine up - but why can't you just move your stereo outputs to the ones logic/apple seem to be "designating" you?

Second, the clock speed issue - how does it affect it 96k? is it crackles or pops, system crashes e.t.c? and what do you mean by it works 'ok' at 44.1

Third, Are you guys running analog or digital desks, or just running straight into and out of your audio interaces? I'm still on my old fathful allen and heath analog desk, and monitor back straight through the desk, would the hardware crackling issue affect this or not?

Last of all, how do you find this affects the general speed of your machines? My MBP has a SSD in it and handles 8 inputs with ease, but have yet to try it with more inputs/aggregate - i can't imagine my slightly aging core2duo processor will be affected with any speed/performance issues because of this will it?

Cheers guys. i'l keep you posted with results

nvssm

Level 1

10 points

Apr 11, 2013 3:26 PM in response to bez_devil

We are not all working in stereo. I have two MOTU 828s, each of which has about 30 output channels so I need to be able to directly address 60 channels and not have to completely reorganize everything if I switch from 10.7 to 10.8.2 or newer.

-- i say, i'm yet to set mine up - but why can't you just move your stereo outputs to the ones logic/apple seem to be "designating" you?

Paul Kavicky Author

Level 2

384 points

Apr 11, 2013 8:55 PM in response to bez_devil

Yes, I have a ton of I/O via 6 interfaces and 3 additional multi channel converters feeding them. They output on several different connector types and all are wired into racks with custom made multi cables from Redco. It's not trivial to move outputs around in this complex of a setup, and I am a bit unwilling to re-wire things just because of a bug that suddenly cropped up in core audio aggregate device.

I've found any crackling I previously had was corrected by a driver update from my interface manufacturer. I'm currently running a typical (biggish) session at 96k with no trouble in DP where that app does the aggregation.

My computer is otherwise fine with a big session and tons of plug ins.

My issue with the way core audio aggregate device no longer allows me to order the interfaces is still a problem.

As a side note/request. I'd like to see core audio properly have a way that I could assign names to the I/O that would show up in all applications especially via a method more similar to what MOTU DP does. The naming in Logic works but is a bit clunkier comparatively. I have DP, Logic, and Pro Tools on my computer and renaming everything manually for each app is a drag.

Feb 6, 2014 9:43 AM in response to Paul Kavicky

Hi,

just in case someone is looking for a solution: I´m using three RME Fireface 800 and after adding a USB audio device (TC-Helicon Voicelive) and removing it the sorting order of my Firefaces was wrong.

The trick is: Create a new aggregate device, and it doesn´t matter if the devices are in the wrong sorting order. Just make sure to ´activate´ (to add) the devices in the right order. If you do so you can see that they appear in the right order horizontally but still not vertically. The horizontal order however is relevant for Logic.

In my case it worked perfectly.

Kind regards,

Philip

nvssm

Level 1

10 points

Feb 6, 2014 10:16 AM in response to cubemusic

This problem was completely fixed in Mavericks. I had reported it through the Apple Developer program and got to test the fix in a pre-release of 10.9 but couldn't say anything about it due to confidentiality of that program.

I have been using several different devices (multiple MOTUs, multiple RME UCXs) under 10.9 and it's solid as a rock.

Paul Kavicky Author

Level 2

384 points

Feb 6, 2014 10:38 AM in response to nvssm

yes, properly solved in Mavericks.

Feb 6, 2014 11:36 AM in response to Paul Kavicky

I´m using 10.9.1.

nvssm

Level 1

10 points

Feb 6, 2014 11:41 AM in response to cubemusic

Then you can just create an aggregate device and drag them to whatever order you want them to be visible

Dec 1, 2015 4:26 AM in response to nvssm

Belated thanks - mystery solved after a year of frustration.

For the life of me I could not get my Aggregate Device's subdevices ordered as I wanted using checkbox selection (which only works to a degree). Embedded online help makes no mention of this somewhat unintuitive method - dragging the subdevice buttons.

Now, at long last I can have my Apogee Duet default to channel 1 & 2 inputs. Swoon.

aggregate device issues in ML