Formal complaint

babowa wrote:

Have you read the terms of use (a link is at the bottom of every page here)?

Therein lies your answer.

You agreed to those terms when you created an account here.

Some of you are downright scary.

We have been trying to tell you that we cannot help you. In fact, you are violating the Terms of Use. I tried to suggest that you read those. If you call that scary, so be it. I am done here.

Kiyuu wrote:

You read my earlier post yet you post such a flippant comment about it here. It was regarding a serious customer service problem that is worthy of discussion, since Apple Japan has not provided a satisfactory response in dealing with it. Problems like that make it worthwhile to have a forum to discuss such service issues. The lack of such a forum merely protects Apple from deserved scrutiny in such cases. It's hard to imagine why you or any other Apple customer would object to an honest discussion of serious customer service or support problems.

I do not see how my earlier comment can be described as "flippant". It contained a factual statement that your post was outwith Terms of Use and a subjective observation that I was not surprised it was pulled.

You may consider the incident which is so exercising you to be serious and worthy of discussion. I have no opinion on that matter. What I do know, what other people have told you and what you clearly fail to comprehend is that this is not the place for such a discussion.

You obviously feel that there should be a forum here about customer service issues. There is nothing to stop you making a post to suggest (without ranting or discussing an individual case) that such a forum be established.

I have no objections to honest discussions of "serious customer service or support problems". However I would not want to see them here; these forums (which I value for the help I have received over the years) are excellent at doing their job of helping people with technical problems and I would not want to see that role weakened by the introduction of what would effectively become a complaints section. There are other, more effective, routes open to customers with such issues to raise.

I am sure there must be a number of Japanese forums about Apple products. As your issue is with Apple in Japan I suggest you troll off to some of those.

babowa wrote:

We have been trying to tell you that we cannot help you. In fact, you are violating the Terms of Use. I tried to suggest that you read those. If you call that scary, so be it. I am done here.

I call it scary because some of you who live in a society that values free speech are so eager to abandon it in defense of a very profitble company that doesn't always do the right thing.

Interestingly enough, I received a pop-up invitation to take a survey about my Apple forums experiences just as I was logging in. One of the questions asked me if I had come to the forums seeking help with a sales or refund issue. If that is not an appropriate subject for the forums, why would Apple bother to ask me about it on their survey? The message I posted that was quickly deleted by the censors was clearly a sales issue in need of help. What meaning does the ToS have if even Apple is asking me if I need to violate it in order to get help? It's simply not rational.

Michael Wasley wrote:

I am sure there must be a number of Japanese forums about Apple products. As your issue is with Apple in Japan I suggest you troll off to some of those.

Is that an example of a comment that complies with the ToS?

And what exactly would you expect fellow users like yourself to do for you? What exactly would be accomplished?

And free speech applies to governments, not corporations. If I have a blog and wish to delete your comments I can do so at my will. So can Apple. As you have been told many times there is nothing you can accomplish here and you have been given other avenues. There are also government agencies you can complain to and you can always hire a lawer. But nobody here can do anything to help you and what you are proposing to do does violate the terms we all agreed to here.

deggie wrote:

And what exactly would you expect fellow users like yourself to do for you? What exactly would be accomplished?

And free speech applies to governments, not corporations. If I have a blog and wish to delete your comments I can do so at my will. So can Apple. As you have been told many times there is nothing you can accomplish here and you have been given other avenues. There are also government agencies you can complain to and you can always hire a lawer. But nobody here can do anything to help you and what you are proposing to do does violate the terms we all agreed to here.

I entered this thread advising the OP not to expect help here. It seems that impression has been reinforced many times over since.

You gave the OP good advice. There is no way the users here can provide any help. It has been reinforced because it is a fact.

deggie wrote:

You gave the OP good advice. There is no way the users here can provide any help. It has been reinforced because it is a fact.

A sad fact that reflects poorly on Apple.

Kiyuu wrote:

deggie wrote:

You gave the OP good advice. There is no way the users here can provide any help. It has been reinforced because it is a fact.

A sad fact that reflects poorly on Apple.

As already stated, ad nasuem, this isn't the appropriate venue for lodging specific complaints about a product or sales situation. It is a user-to-user forum for technical assistance. That is clearly stated in the terms of use use, which you agreed to when you signed up, even it you didn't take the time to read them.

If anything in this thread reflects poorly, it isn't on Apple. Its on you. The OP was offered several options for getting the issue resolved. What have you offered?

Few things reflect more poorly on Apple than this forum. I was warned by a friend that this forum is a hostile environment for customers with legitimate complaints about Apple products or service. Sadly, he was right.

All I want is a UK mainland address be that an email or snail mail address.

Apple has not published any such address. All they have provided are the mailing addresses for their European headquarters in Ireland and the corporate address in the US, which are provided on the Contact pages to which you've already been give the links. Apple does not publish email addresses for their customer service departments.

There's nothing else anyone here can tell you, so further discussion will probably just degenerate further into fruitless and inflammatory argument. I therefore strongly suggest - and this goes to everyone reading - that we let this drop at this point. Hopefully your contact in Executive Relations can address your issue.

Regards.

According to the information shown at Apple UK http://www.apple.com/uk/contact/ the UK VAT registration number is GB117223643, you can check online whether the VAT number is legitimate, and by doing so, reveals the address for Apple UK:

APPLE DISTRIBUTION INTERNATIONAL

2 FURZEGROUND WAY

STOCKLEY PARK

UXBRIDGE

MIDDLESEX

UB11 1BB

I'm not sure whether you will receive a reply after writing to the above address, but you can be sure that the Inland Revenue won't be too happy if the address supplied by Apple UK is false!

I would think that contacting Apple UK might be a good start.

<Email Edited by Host>