Formal complaint

These forums are for technical support, and this forum is for questions about the Communities themselves. Posts that are nothing but complaints about Apple, particularly about Apple policies, are inappropriate per the terms of use to which we all agreed. The Hosts are usually quite lenient, quite contrary to being "arrogant" but they have to draw the line somewhere or things get quickly out of hand.

As you can see if you just read the thread, several people have tried to offer suggestions as to contacts - the only help any of us can provide - and there is no other help possible since none of us work for Apple.

My post that was deleted was an honest account of a serious problem with Apple Japan. The reason given for the deletion in the email I received was simply not honest. Unfortunately, not having had an opportunity to actually read it, you're not really in a position to evaluate it accurately.

Thank you, but we know what the contact information is. We also know that the information we are getting from Apple Japan is not true.

How would you feel if you ordered a new iPad from the Apple online store and they didn't ship it after the payment was processed because of a system error at Apple, then your message about it in the Apple forum was deleted?

What do you want us to do? We are users like you. You were provided with the contact information. Contact your credit card company, the card you used on line, and dispute the charge.

Posting your feelings about Apple falls on deaf ears here. We would be more than happy to help you with any technical issue you are having.

Correct. These are user-to-user technical support forums. There is nothing any of us can do regarding your issue other than tell you how to contact Apple, and we have already given you this information.

Kiyuu wrote:

So there is no Apple Support Community to discuss Apple problems like this?

No, there is not.

These forums are essentially for asking/answering technical questions (a function they fulfil very well). That was made clear to you in the Terms of Use you agreed to when you signed up here.

I did see your earlier post and I am not surprised it was pulled as it was clearly contrary to Terms of Use.

People have attempted to help you here by suggesting avenues you can follow.

If you have time to waste on venting your anger with Apple there are various other Apple-centred user forums you can join and which Google will help you find.

Michael Wasley wrote:

No, there is not.

These forums are essentially for asking/answering technical questions (a function they fulfil very well). That was made clear to you in the Terms of Use you agreed to when you signed up here.

I did see your earlier post and I am not surprised it was pulled as it was clearly contrary to Terms of Use.

People have attempted to help you here by suggesting avenues you can follow.

If you have time to waste on venting your anger with Apple there are various other Apple-centred user forums you can join and which Google will help you find.

You read my earlier post yet you post such a flippant comment about it here. It was regarding a serious customer service problem that is worthy of discussion, since Apple Japan has not provided a satisfactory response in dealing with it. Problems like that make it worthwhile to have a forum to discuss such service issues. The lack of such a forum merely protects Apple from deserved scrutiny in such cases. It's hard to imagine why you or any other Apple customer would object to an honest discussion of serious customer service or support problems.

babowa wrote:

Have you read the terms of use (a link is at the bottom of every page here)?

Therein lies your answer.

You agreed to those terms when you created an account here.

Some of you are downright scary.

Kiyuu wrote:

You read my earlier post yet you post such a flippant comment about it here. It was regarding a serious customer service problem that is worthy of discussion, since Apple Japan has not provided a satisfactory response in dealing with it. Problems like that make it worthwhile to have a forum to discuss such service issues. The lack of such a forum merely protects Apple from deserved scrutiny in such cases. It's hard to imagine why you or any other Apple customer would object to an honest discussion of serious customer service or support problems.

I do not see how my earlier comment can be described as "flippant". It contained a factual statement that your post was outwith Terms of Use and a subjective observation that I was not surprised it was pulled.

You may consider the incident which is so exercising you to be serious and worthy of discussion. I have no opinion on that matter. What I do know, what other people have told you and what you clearly fail to comprehend is that this is not the place for such a discussion.

You obviously feel that there should be a forum here about customer service issues. There is nothing to stop you making a post to suggest (without ranting or discussing an individual case) that such a forum be established.

I have no objections to honest discussions of "serious customer service or support problems". However I would not want to see them here; these forums (which I value for the help I have received over the years) are excellent at doing their job of helping people with technical problems and I would not want to see that role weakened by the introduction of what would effectively become a complaints section. There are other, more effective, routes open to customers with such issues to raise.

I am sure there must be a number of Japanese forums about Apple products. As your issue is with Apple in Japan I suggest you troll off to some of those.

babowa wrote:

We have been trying to tell you that we cannot help you. In fact, you are violating the Terms of Use. I tried to suggest that you read those. If you call that scary, so be it. I am done here.

I call it scary because some of you who live in a society that values free speech are so eager to abandon it in defense of a very profitble company that doesn't always do the right thing.

Interestingly enough, I received a pop-up invitation to take a survey about my Apple forums experiences just as I was logging in. One of the questions asked me if I had come to the forums seeking help with a sales or refund issue. If that is not an appropriate subject for the forums, why would Apple bother to ask me about it on their survey? The message I posted that was quickly deleted by the censors was clearly a sales issue in need of help. What meaning does the ToS have if even Apple is asking me if I need to violate it in order to get help? It's simply not rational.

Michael Wasley wrote:

I am sure there must be a number of Japanese forums about Apple products. As your issue is with Apple in Japan I suggest you troll off to some of those.

Is that an example of a comment that complies with the ToS?

And what exactly would you expect fellow users like yourself to do for you? What exactly would be accomplished?

And free speech applies to governments, not corporations. If I have a blog and wish to delete your comments I can do so at my will. So can Apple. As you have been told many times there is nothing you can accomplish here and you have been given other avenues. There are also government agencies you can complain to and you can always hire a lawer. But nobody here can do anything to help you and what you are proposing to do does violate the terms we all agreed to here.

deggie wrote:

And what exactly would you expect fellow users like yourself to do for you? What exactly would be accomplished?

And free speech applies to governments, not corporations. If I have a blog and wish to delete your comments I can do so at my will. So can Apple. As you have been told many times there is nothing you can accomplish here and you have been given other avenues. There are also government agencies you can complain to and you can always hire a lawer. But nobody here can do anything to help you and what you are proposing to do does violate the terms we all agreed to here.

I entered this thread advising the OP not to expect help here. It seems that impression has been reinforced many times over since.

Kiyuu wrote:

deggie wrote:

You gave the OP good advice. There is no way the users here can provide any help. It has been reinforced because it is a fact.

A sad fact that reflects poorly on Apple.

As already stated, ad nasuem, this isn't the appropriate venue for lodging specific complaints about a product or sales situation. It is a user-to-user forum for technical assistance. That is clearly stated in the terms of use use, which you agreed to when you signed up, even it you didn't take the time to read them.

If anything in this thread reflects poorly, it isn't on Apple. Its on you. The OP was offered several options for getting the issue resolved. What have you offered?

Few things reflect more poorly on Apple than this forum. I was warned by a friend that this forum is a hostile environment for customers with legitimate complaints about Apple products or service. Sadly, he was right.