why is logic pro so hard??

The Art Of Sound wrote:

It's not so much that FCPX left out a lot, it's that what was there barely worked at all. Several PBS stations that I work with have moved on to other video creation software.

I also found that to be the case with several of my own clients but since then, all but 2 have now switched back to FCPX once the initial issues were resolved and they all seem very happy with the program.. it's capabilities and workflow... It's stability now.. and the updates... and the type and frequency of updates being released that have continued to add to both the stability and usefulness of FCPX. I'm not a FCPX user myself so i can only relate the feedback i have received via my client base... YVMV.

Using a client base of that type and nature.. as a 'Beta test group" for FCPX was, in my opinion.. one of the 'dumbest' things Apple has done in a long time and I hope (and, from what little i know... that will not be the case with the next major version of Logic. That's not to say the next Logic will not have all the usual teething issues and bugs that all new Software has...but I truly hope and believe that the frustrating situation that occured with FCPX upon it's initial relase, will not be repeated...and as i said, from what i know, that will not be the case.

Good thoughts AOS, thanks.

Maybe it's time to take a second look at FCPX.. unfortunately I was the one that informed one of the stations that the new release of FCP was available, so I don't know if anyone will listen to me on the video end of it.

If I recall correctly, nobody was forced to use FCPX when it came out, the old version still was and is fully functional. What seems to be the problem, apart from the marketing issue mentioned here. I mean how can any professional user jump on new software just like that? I don't know for the rest of you, but never ever will I use anything, I have not tested to the limit, on a professional job.

From my perspective, the issue was the marketing. If they had just announced that it was the new platform, but was only partially fleshed out and not yet ready for those doing full-length commercial projects, I think it would have been a huge hit. Instead, they insisted foolishly that FCP was dead and it was time for everyone to migrate to the new platform. Not even close.

Yes, this was a huge problem and caused me a bit of cred with some of the people I work with.. plus, as ArtofSnd alluded to, they used a loyal user base as Beta testers.. that's not playing fair and showing respect for the people that hung in there with them thorough the hard times (The Pro Community).

In my opinion the new management deserves the beating their stock is taking.

kcstudio wrote:

If I recall correctly, nobody was forced to use FCPX when it came out, the old version still was and is fully functional.

True, and many went back to it... I think the expectation was it was an update to FCP and Apple came on and said FCP is Dead, and this new software is the future... which kind of scared some longtime video people who thought they better get on board only to find out what a mess the release version was. The folks I know hung in there through several updates but when one of the updates was not compatible with previous projects they took FCPX off all of the studio computers..it was just more hassle than it was worth. FCPX holds the sole distinction of of being the single piece of software Apple released that they had to give refunds on and on a fairly large scale.

In my opinion, users should have given Apple more negative feedback than they did, one, for using their installed base of FCP users as Beta testers and two, for the marketing ploy of saying your previous software is discontinued, can't even buy it anymore, no more updates to the existing version.

People let Apple slide too much, and too long.

Mark is right. The FCPx release disaster was mainly an insanely stupid marketing mistake.

I published one of the first books for FCPx when the app was released last year (Final Cut Pro X - How it Works). During that time, I dug into it quite a bit and kind of understood what Apple was doing on a technical side to take video editing and the user interface experience to the next level. But again, the marketing roll out, the timing and the sprinkle of Apple's arrogance was a complete disaster that gave FCPx such a bad rap and did tremendous damage for their pro apps market share. If you think about it, maybe at the end it was good for us Logic users not to end up in a similar situation.

Besides the point that the the state of Logic 9-X is a little bit different, I don't think that Apple will repeat that mistake. At least it seems that they are not in a hurry with the Logic X release and taking the time to do it right.

Back to the topic of "Logic is so hard". There are many apps that are difficult to use because they have a bad user interface and a lot of other reasons that make the usability of a program harder than it should be. Although Logic has some room for improvement, overall it is just very deep and open and flexible. These are its strength and not its weakness.

What would happen if a user wants to put up a cat video on YouTube, buys FCPx or Avid to edit it and then goes on those forums and complains that those apps are so difficult. I don't think that that post would get much "love" from the video community either.

Well, so what? I don't hear any of those beautiful GUI's in finished products! Discuss, even arguing, about functionality idiosyncrasies is what it is here all about, isn't it? And about 'why is logic pro so hard ?' ………..

I wonder what would happen if we'd permit people to fligh airplanes without any decent training in advance?

The surely would buy huge plains, only to complaint over the fact that they are to hard to fly and why couldn't there be an airplane which does not constantly crash. Well I will go to work now, planning to enjoy the tools I have and at this moment in time Logic 9 is a very important part of this joy!

Nothing wrong with a bit of optimism over here.

Cheers!

Since you are new to Logic I woud suggest you use Ultrabeat rather than the EXS Sampler

Load Ultrabeat into a Track

From the Drum Kit menu - Choose Drag and Drop Samples

Then create a copy of that > 'Save As' - 'My Own Drum Kit' - or whatver you like

From there you can just load your samples into the Kit and you will get midi roll data to just drag and drop into tracks at will - it makes editing drum sequences real quick and you are not limited to loading drum kits - you can drag any element in there and sequence at will.

Do take the time to read up on Ultrabeat in the Manual for more info but that's the quick overview guide.

Ultrabeat is pretty powerful and easy to use once you have picked up the basics

It looks real scary at first glance but if you study the manual and try out stuff as you go - you'll pick up the basics in a few hours.

I found learning Ultrabeat much easier than the EXS24 - maybe you will too

Once you get to grips with Logic - you will love it - just be prepared for a few headaches along the way - but it is all worth it - it is a fantastic bit of kit. It's taken me 5 years to really start flying and I still got tons to learn but that's a good thing - in time I hope you get there - good luck

I know it's been a while since anyone has posted here, but I've just been reading through and found a lot of great advice, I do suggest looking through it all. Pancenter makes a lot of great points.

As far as to why Logic is so hard, it is just like how everyone has said, it is a complex industry standard DAW. And yes, I say "industry standard" quite deliberately because it gives industry standard results if used properly. Switching from Fruity Loops to Logic is like switching from a Cesna to a Space Craft. It's just built to do a lot more with a lot more things. It takes hours to get a grip of a Cesna and months to master, but it takes years to operate a Space Craft.

In Logic Pro however you are not all lost, you have a library of loops and presets that you can cycle through and learn how each one works. This is how I like to learn a new DAW; picking apart the presets.

I use both Protools and Logic and I gotta tell you there's some things that Logic can do even better than the mighty Protools. Of course we're just talking built in plugins. Once you have an armory of your own plugins then that's a different story.

Good luck with your learning good sir! And remember, true art in any form may happen in an instance, but takes years to master.

I haven't used Logic X myself if that's what you're referring to. I did hear there were a lot of changes made. A producer buddy of mine says I should make the change but I'm a little hesitant. As for me, I use a track pad to do all my zooming, I can't live without multitouch.

I find exactly the opposite. I replaced the mouse on my Logic and office machine with Trackpads when they came out years ago and haven't looked back. Now, I find it more than tedious to use a mouse, it is borderline uselss and strange once your brain started to erase all those redundant motorics that it had to develop in order to use a mouse.

Think about it:

You grab a thing (the mouse) to move another thing (the mouse pointer) to move yet another thing (the scroll bar) to get the real thing (th page) move up and down. On top of that you had to tell the brain that it made sense to move the thing (the scroll bar) up in order to move the real thing that you want to move (the page) down.

That's a lot of brain processing power to just move a page

Hope that helps

Edgar Rothermich

<Link Edited By Host>

Hi Edgar,

Just a quick note / fyi about the sig with your website address in it... that you keep using in your posts.

It's actually against community rules which is why, every so often it gets edited out by the mods...

Cheers..

Nigel

I also use a mouse. I use three things, Trackpads, Laser mouse, and Ball mouse, the ones with the ball on top that you move with you thumb. I find each to be useful in their own little things. Like when I have to swim through an ocean of settings, I find it more comfortable to click with a mouse, when I'm in the arrange window I like the feel of a trackpad, and when working with subtle, precise movements, I find the ball to be most useful. I honesty don't look at one periferial type as better than another, I look at them as different tools in my tool belt. The more tools I have for the things I need, the more efficient my tool belt. That's why I think arguing if a track pad or a mouse is better is kind of arbitrary because it really depends on the style of engineer you are. In other words, there is no better way, it's all what feels most comfortable to you.

Dannyowashere wrote:

I honesty don't look at one periferial type as better than another, I look at them as different tools in my tool belt. The more tools I have for the things I need, the more efficient my tool belt. That's why I think arguing if a track pad or a mouse is better is kind of arbitrary because it really depends on the style of engineer you are. In other words, there is no better way, it's all what feels most comfortable to you.

Well said! They are tools each with strong points depending on how the individual works.

When Logic ended for the PC I switched to Cubase, I found it awkward and less intuitive, I had to work harder to get what I wanted... in the end, The Cubase music I did back then (over 10yrs ago) stands the test of time as it was the work I put into it that defined the quality. Ease of use and a million choices don't always add up to quality... the investment of time, energy, dedication...etc, almost always creates something lasting, if not in the art itself, in the individual.

pancenter-

CCT,

This is the section I am referring to...

No advertising. Do not use the Site to sell or market your products to others and do not post a URL unless it directly answers a user's question. If any portion of your Submission, including any posted URL, results in any accrual of compensation or benefit to you, you must note this in your post by stating, "I may receive some form of compensation, financial or otherwise, from my recommendation or link." As well, the following are not allowed:

3.You may sign your Submissions with information about yourself. However, this should not include a link to a website.

As far as i am aware, Edgar's link is a general one advertising his products.. and not in direct answer to any question or post.....

I should also add.. that I too, at one time posted a similar link in my own posts and was very politely but firmly asked to cease doing so by a couple of moderators.... as it breached community T&C

Cheers..

Nigel