The clipboard converts JPG data to TIFF

I just had a go 'round with senior apple tech, about an issue I'd expect people to be jumping up and down about, but there's hardly a complaint.

Essentially Apple has verified a clipboard issue in Snow Leopard and Mountain Lion, a problem that affects Apple Mail and Pages, and perhaps other applications. I first consciously encountered the issue when using Apple Mail, so I'll describe it in that context.

When I copy a portion of a jpeg (or make a screenshot) it pastes into Apple Mail as a TIFF file. (NOTE :I do this a lot, because I need to quicly send cropped portions of existing images, without cropping, saving, attaching, remembering to remove unneeded saved image from hard drive ...)

Here's an all-Apple scenario:

Open a JPG in Preview
Select a portion of the JPG
Copy
Paste inline into Apple Mail
Send the email
Open the Sent Mail box, and look at the attachment type for the message sent
RESULT: The attachment is a TIFF file. JPG was copied / TIFF was sent

This is a big problem:

the conversion to TIFF needlessly bloats the file size by four to eight times the original size
worse, some email clients can't hand TIFFs, and can't display them inline.
This clipboard problem seems to pervade Apple software, and is evident in Apple Pages. Somethin's rotten in the OS.

Other vendors handle pastes seemlessly. In mail applications like Entourage and Thunderbird ... ya copy a JPG it pastes a JPG. But Apple claims that the clipboard conversion is normal expected behavior, handled by Quicktime. In reality, it's a total pain, expected or not

I haven't looked into it, but I'd expect that after an image copy the clipboard may have more than one format in it. Consider the text clipboard, which often simultaneously contains: plain text, rich text, HTML, etc. The software receiving the paste should intelligently decide which format to take in on paste. Same should go for images. Even if the clipboard contains only TIFF data after copy/conversion, shouldn't the receiving app be able to request that QuickTime convert the TIFF to JPG on paste? If so, well, Mail could do that! I believe the application is responsible for chosing which format to paste— that's certainly true if there are more than one formats on the image clipboard, or if conversion is offered.

I hope to not have to resort to measures like third party clipboards:

http://www.jot.fm/issues/issue_2008_03/column2.pdf

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/545464?answerId=2662725022#2662725022

Here are some posts on Apple's forum complaining about this problem:

https://discussions.apple.com/search.jspa?resultTypes=&dateRange=all&peopleEnabl ed=true&q=clipboard+jpeg+tiff+convert&containerType=&container=&containerName=&u sername=&rankBy=relevance

After talking with six people at Apple (half who couldn't understand the issue), and after devoting two hours of my time to find a resolution or tenable workaround, I find it discouraging to recieve this responce from an Apple Senior advisor:

It does appear that the clipboard may save images to it as uncompressed TIFF files, instead, you can try opening the image in preview or dragging and dropping to avoid the clipboard. Again, I've come across workarounds like automated scrips and clipboard manager applications but I can't really make any recommendation or suggestions regarding third party apps.

What's the real problem here?

John

Posted on Mar 12, 2013 6:31 PM

82 replies

thomas_r.

Level 7

32,031 points

Apr 8, 2013 9:25 AM in response to Yann Bizeul

I'm not sure what you're talking about regarding screen shots... Mine are PNG. If yours is set to TIFF, change it to what you want:

http://macs.about.com/od/usingyourmac/qt/Screenshot-Format.htm

Apr 8, 2013 9:28 AM in response to thomas_r.

Thanks Thomas.

You may want to read the original message.

We are not talking about screenshots on disk, but screenshot pasted in mail messages (from a copy to pasteboard operation, wherever it comes from – Command-C or screenshot –), which in our opinion, should use the same format.

thomas_r.

Level 7

32,031 points

Apr 8, 2013 9:35 AM in response to Yann Bizeul

Why would you expect a screenshot placed directly in the clipboard to behave differently from all other clipboard operations? I think you have not understood what etresoft and Kurt have said about how the clipboard works.

Apr 8, 2013 9:38 AM in response to thomas_r.

The clipboard does whatever it has to do, it's not the point. I said I'm ok if the clipboard contains TIFF data, even if I would find more consistant to find the format specified as the default screenshot format (I agree, that is specific to in-pasteboard screenshots).

But whatever format is used in the pasteboard, Apple Mail should convert it to a widely accepted format for messaging purpose, and this is everything but TIFF.

Kurt Lang

Level 9

68,508 points

Apr 8, 2013 9:40 AM in response to Yann Bizeul

which in our opinion, should use the same format.

That's the problem, the image isn't in a "format" anymore, it's just uncompressed image data. And the most common uncompressed image format is TIFF.

Now, it would be nice if the clipboard picked up a small amount of metadata about what the image file format was that the clip came from so it could then default to that when saved to a file, but it apparently doesn't do that. Not sure if clipboard data can even carry such extra tagged info.

Apr 8, 2013 9:43 AM in response to Kurt Lang

For that matter, the pasteboard can even store different representation of the same thing. But I think storing multiple format of the same screenshot may be an overkill.

This is why I think it is to Apple Mail to fix it and convert TIFF data that comes from the pasteboard.

thomas_r.

Level 7

32,031 points

Apr 8, 2013 9:43 AM in response to Yann Bizeul

Apple Mail should convert it to a widely accepted format for messaging purpose

Why should Mail be expected to do that? Some people may want it to be TIFF. Why is your choice the correct one? Whatever choice it might make automatically would be wrong for some people.

If you want it in a specific format, put it in a file with that format and attach that file. As I said earlier, I'm sure you could use Automator to create an automated workflow that will do this for you.

Apr 8, 2013 10:33 AM in response to Kurt Lang

Guys, I'm really happy for the flurry of interest because I'd like to see this topic addressed ... but please read carefully. I'm referring to the original post ... well, and this one too.

Note, I originally I mentioned that there ARE email applications that treat pasted images the way I want.

It's the responsibility of the receiving application to behave intelligently and/or offer a preference that allows users to govern the outcome. Some apps do behave intelligently (read below) but Apple Mail does not. So it's clear that clipboard design/behavior does not have a stranglehold on the situation—in other words, a solution is not as deep as changing the OS/clipboard. Apple Mail just needs to be smarter or more flexible. Period. All Mail would have to do is a) look at my "image paste preference setting" b) convert the clipboard TIFF to that format. Rocket science?

In the original post I created and described an all-apple scenario. I did so because expected Apple and forum members would blame the third party software I use. Though the "Preview-jpg to clipboard to Apple-Mail-TIFF" story parallels my actual workflow, now, in full disclosure, here's my everyday scenario.

I use SnapzPro 2.3.1 (by Ambrosia) for nicely controlled screen capture. It's wonderful! I simply drag a selection rectangle, then I double click it, and SnapzPro puts that portion of my screen image on the clipboard (Indeed there's an alternate option for saving the selection to a file, but when I plan to paste into an email there's NO reason to save a file—doing so merely adds the burden of "hopefully" remembering to delete it later.

For years I've been extremely happy with SnapzPro and pasting into email clients like Entourage and Thunderbird ... because those apps save the attachment as JPEG or PNG on paste. Never, ever have they bloated the file to uncompressed TIFF. I first encountered this gaff with Apple Mail. I've been looking for a simple solution ever since I tried Apple Mail.

This search caused me to realize that the TIFF conversion issue is widespread, and affects pasting among Apple applications. To date I've only seen this problem with Apple's clipboard and Apple applications.

So the problem with Apple Mail really is (and simply is) a clipboard/app issue.

etresoft

Level 9

56,326 points

Apr 8, 2013 6:17 PM in response to John Blasquez

So, in other words, it is a problem with SnapzPro. Apple Preview is able to share an unsaved document to Apple Mail as a PNG. Apple's built-in Grab screen capture tool is pretty basic, but Quicktime Player's screen recorder function can also share with Apple Mail without saving to a file.

I suggest you go onto the Mac App Store and search for screen capture tools. There must be over a hundred. A number of them can share with Mail and they are all cheaper than SnapzPro

Apr 8, 2013 6:48 PM in response to etresoft

Skitch makes a pretty decent job and is free.

https://itunes.apple.com/fr/app/skitch/id425955336?mt=12

Still, I think pasting a tiif in a mail, by default, is stupid :-)

Kurt Lang

Level 9

68,508 points

Apr 8, 2013 7:08 PM in response to Yann Bizeul

Still, I think pasting a tiff in a mail, by default, is stupid :-)

Have to say I agree, for that purpose. The idea, most of the time, is to keep the size of an email down so it takes less time to send and to receive. Quality isn't usually what you're going for.

Apr 9, 2013 12:05 PM in response to Kurt Lang

Kurt Lang wrote:

Still, I think pasting a tiff in a mail, by default, is stupid :-)

Have to say I agree, for that purpose. The idea, most of the time, is to keep the size of an email down so it takes less time to send and to receive. Quality isn't usually what you're going for.

Exactly. Generally speaking, fidelity is usually NOT the critical when sending emails. The default should be paste with no change in format. If someone wants to send a hi-rez image they can easily attach one. Or put it in a shared cloud folder.

Unfortunately, there is no way to paste to Mail without inflating to TIFF. Not that I've seen. Granted there are suggested workarounds like Preview>Share (not available in Snow Leopard?) but why not just make paste work more logically and seemlessly? Clearly that would meet user's expectations.

Maybe Apple Mail just needs a "Paste Image as" menu item:

Even if the OS requires that the image must first go on the clipboard as TIFF I'd think QuickTime could handle the conversion on paste. Slight degradation or artifacts would likely be acceptable. If not, the user could choose TIFF.

Apr 9, 2013 12:17 PM in response to etresoft

etresoft wrote:

So, in other words, it is a problem with SnapzPro.

How do you come to the conclusion that SnapzPros is responsible for images pasting into Apple Mail as TIFFs?

etresoft wrote:

Apple Preview is able to share an unsaved document to Apple Mail as a PNG. Apple's built-in Grab screen capture tool is pretty basic, but Quicktime Player's screen recorder function can also share with Apple Mail without saving to a file.

Thanks ... but that sounds pretty inconvenient. Plus I don't see Share in Preview 5.03 on Snow Leopard. Am I missing something? Is Share to email new in QuickTime under Lion? On Snow Leopoard I only see share to iTunes, Mobile Me Gallery, youTube.

etresoft wrote:

I suggest you go onto the Mac App Store and search for screen capture tools. There must be over a hundred. A number of them can share with Mail and they are all cheaper than SnapzPro

Given the facts at hand, shouldn't we expect that any capture tool that stores the image on the clipboard is going to have the same result (as Snapz Pro) when pasting into Mail? TIFF, TIFF and only TIFF?

Apr 9, 2013 12:37 PM in response to John Blasquez

How do you come to the conclusion that SnapzPros is responsible for images pasting into Apple Mail as TIFFs?

Well, he's right in some way, Skitch does put PNG in the pasteboard for example, and the PNG remains that way up to mail, so everything is good. So I think Snapz Pro may choose to do the same.

Apple Preview is able to share an unsaved document to Apple Mail as a PNG.

That's a god point... in Preview, Apple thinks it is wise to une PNG when sending an email... well, guess what program he's talking to should be that smart ?

Given the facts at hand, shouldn't we expect that any capture tool that stores the image on the clipboard is going to have the same result (as Snapz Pro) when pasting into Mail? TIFF, TIFF and only TIFF?

Nope, as mentioned before, Skitch makes a pretty good job.

May 28, 2013 8:44 AM in response to John Blasquez

I have to agree with John Blasquez that it is functionally useless if the screen capture puts a tiff in an email, despite the purists' arguments above. The alternative of putting it in a graphics app to save it as a jpeg to include in the email is just a waste of time. If you really want a tiff please go that route, but for the 99.9% of the rest of us that want a jpeg, or whatever we set in the finder/grab, please reprogramme the default for Mail.

I cannot understand what logic would possess the writer of the software to think it is a good idea. What is particularly irksome is that PC users don't have this problem - they can just cut bits of screen into their mails with impunity now. Something they had difficulty with before. Now Apple seems to be taking over the mantle previously owned by MS. Please Apple, LISTEN!

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The clipboard converts JPG data to TIFF