clipping sound on new iMac when Logix X is running

When I spoke to Apple support the tech guy put it to me like this

- They are not aware that there are issues with USB 3 , at least sounded like not sure

- They are not aware that a solution is on the way from Apple

- Most importantly he put it to me like this , he said think of it as the party that is most affected with the situation is the more likely to act on it . In other words Apple dont have problem if lets say Audio Kontrol from native instrument wont work on your mac because you have USB 3 , its the audio card manifacture that is affected therefore if someone going to act about it it must be the sound card party. Now the tricky part, the more popoualr the sound card you have , the more client base the more likely the sound card company will do something about it. Dont be surprised if it sits in the middle for someone to come and pick it up .

quite depressing to hear all of this but unless your sound card provider has real support for USB 3 peoblem will not be solved.... 😟

Art of Sound,

"work is being done and a fix will be released" is a very open ended statement.

A fix could be the iMac being updated 6 months down the line with "new hardware"

or it could be waiting for a new iOS update or it could be a simple firmware fix.

You're giving people on this thread hope but can I put you on the spot and ask whether you actually have dealings with Apple internally (sorry I have no idea of who you are and/or your gravitas with Apple.) ?

If you do have dealings internally then surely you can feedback some details on how far along they are with a fix....

I think it's great you've responded so often in this thread but you've pretty much just confirmed what other have found/said. If you do have internal connections at Apple it'd be good to have some new information from the horses mouth.

I still dont understand if apple know very well the market is not ready for USB 3 and all of them are light years behind why restreict teh imac to USB 3 and not at least add one USB 2???? can someone explain to me why am i in such a problem???

Hi AOS,

Actually, the problem USB2 HDD has a separate power supply. It is a Lacie Starck desktop hard drive. I hooked it to my 2009 iMac and copied the iphoto library without any issue. I tried to copy the iphoto library onto my 2013 iMac, OSX just crashed about half way.....and I tried it few times and it always crashed on me. Today, I did the same with a Western Digital USB3.0 Studio HDD, and it has no issue whatsoever.

It seems that anything of USB2.0 is lethal to my 2013 iMac. 😟

Hi Babw

Unfortunately, all I can say...

...is that Apple are working on a fix for the 2013 iMac with FD and Audio issue...... I cannot say when it will be released or what form it might take but it is being worked on.... This info came drectly from Apple's US Engineering Team....

Organik76,

The issue with USB3 is not one that Apple will fix as it is down to the Devs of Audiio/Midi/Other interfaces and their respective drivers/firmware, to fix the problems with the way they (The 3rd party devs) designed their hardware and implemented (or didn't!) USB3 support with their USB2 hardware... and it not something that Apple did, to cause this.. If you are not aware, several Audio/Midi/Other USB2 interfaces have the exact same issues with PCs and Windows 8 for the same reasons..

Also, its worth noting that several USB2 devices have no issues when used with USB3 ports because these devices were correctly designed in the first place.... following the USB2 specs... The problem has mainly occured because sveeral other Devs took advantage of certain 'non supported' features of USB2's specs... typically related to power availability via the USB2 port itself..... that no longer work with USB3 ports...

Danny,

Sorry to hear that!

One trick to use with certain external HDs that have 'power saving' features built in to them... is to put a text file on them (anything will do) and then open it in textedit and keep it open while you are doing large data transfers... At the same time make sure your Energy Settings in System preferences are set temporarily, so the computer does not go to sleep... and that the 'Put Hard Drives to sleep' feature is turned off too.

These little 'tweaks' will sometimes, but not always, help resolve such issues with certain drives..

Thanks for the tips AOS! 🙂

I was about to pull the trigger on a new iMAC until I found this post and others. (There is one on LogicProHelp that talks about pops/clicks on buffer settings under 256.)

FWIW, I called Apple yesterday and neither the sales person nor the Logic Product Specialist to whom he referred me knew anything about any of this. The Logic person said that there were no known Fusion Drive issues and that all problems were just individual -- attributable to issues with the interface (or parameter settings) -- and that with sufficient RAM, the buffer should function well down to a setting of 64. (Which contradicts the experiences of Logic users in the LogicProHelp thread.) When I pointed out these threads -- and the fact that many people were reporting issues independent of Logic (e.g. with iTunes, Quicktime, YouTube) and independent of any interface (using internal monitor), he said his area was only Logic and he could only speak to that, but that he knew of no problems being caused by Fusion Drive.

Which leads me to my point re: Art of Sound's assurances.

While I much appreciate his information and contributions to this thread and in NO WAY am I questioning his motive, integrity nor suggesting his information is inaccurate. However, if indeed Apple has acknowledged this problem internally and are trying to solve it, I am at a COMPLETE LOSS to understand why they will not SIMPLY ACKNOWLEDGE THIS PUBLICLY -- rather than letting people continue to spend $2-3k on these machines for audio work and get them home, not be able to use them and, for those who don't know about these threads (or don't have time to read them), think they are alone or that they have a one-off defective machine and go through the trouble of exchanging it -- when an exchange won't solve the problem - and the rep they speak to may know nothing about it..

So, again, without trying to impugn Art of Sound in any way, what he says simply makes no sense to me -- and if it is indeed accurate -- I find it reprehensible re: Apple. I understand why they cannot say definitively WHEN it will be fixed. I TOTALLY DON'T UNDERSTAND why they can't -- and won't -- formally and publicly ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THIS IS AN ISSUE, issue an official statement and make all their reps aware of it.

It makes it extremely difficult for me to spend the $ on a new iMAC right now, even knowing to stay away from Fusion Drive and USB interfaces. Art of Sound -- if you indeed have the ear of the people who are working on this -- you might want to advise them that they are losing at least one customer simply due to failure to communicate their efforts.

LogicL1 wrote:

I am at a COMPLETE LOSS to understand why they will not SIMPLY ACKNOWLEDGE THIS PUBLICLY -- rather than letting people continue to spend $2-3k on these machines for audio work and get them home, not be able to use them

Because admitting errors publicly pains Apple to no end.

You have to hold them down and rub their face in it before they admit even the possibility of an error.

It's just not their way and never has been as far as I can recall. (way back to the Mac SE)

p.s. besides, it's just a bunch of hard luck audio guys whining. 😀

LogicL1,

Firstly, I take your points well... What you are saying has been said many, many times over by many people here and elsewhere, including myself. Apple's 'secrecy' policy is, imho.. very odd to say the least and extremely frustrating for us users... but it is what it is... and has been for so many years now... that I have sort of got used to it. I don't care for it.. but I have accepted it's just how Apple works.

Secondly, I am not an employee in any way of Apples. I happen to have several very good contacts within Apple's Development and Engineering teams, that I have been lucky to establish over the years.. along with several very well known 3rd party software and hardware Developers.. and several well connected clients.. thanks to my work with various Studios around the world.. but thats about it... and even with such contacts, trying to get hard facts out of Apple, that one can publish... about any given issue, current or past, can be nigh on impossible at times until such time as it is deemed by Apple to make such knowledge public.

Next, as I and others have said many times in the past about this issue or any other.... Don't be surprised if the majority of CSRs and first/second level tech support staff know nothing about certain issues because in fact, they simply don't know as no one will have told them... until such time as the information is made officially public by Apple.. Those that do know, as others have commented here and else where, are actual Logic Users themselves or have just been dealing with the current issue themselves and so they have become aware.. rather than having been told officially by Apple. There is an Engineering Team notice about this in the CSR database.. but that doesn't mean any of the CSRs are aware of it's presence at this time... and there is no current solution as part of that notice. If the CSRs follow their 'scripts' in troubleshooting such an Audio issue, it will lead them down the road to "Bad. incompatible.. or incorrectly installed 3rd party Audio/midi drivers" because typically in the past, that is what would cause such symptoms as are being reported by those with the 2013 iMac FD / Audio issue... so that is what the CSRs deem the problem to be... and so thats why they try and troubleshoot in the way they do.. (Check for new drivers.. uninstall 3rd party plugins.. reinstall Logic.. reinstall OS X... Contact your Audio Interface's Developers and so on...)

Apple even keeps secrets from Apple... as bizarre as that sounds.. to the uninitiated...

As a good recent example... No one outside of the Logic Dev team, a few Upper management people at Apple, a small group of 'selected' hardware/software developers... and the small internal and external Logic testing team.. knew anything about Logic Pro X until it was announced and released... and even that small group were heavily bound legally by various NDAs designed to keep their 'mouths firmly shut' about it's development... until again, the news was made public, officially by Apple.

CSRs didn't know.. Sales staff didn't know... Most of the OS X Dev team didn't know... None of the 'Geniuses' apparently knew ahead of time... and certainly no one here or on any other similar website knew... unless they happen to be a member of that small external test team or are one of the 'select' hardware/software devs... and then of course, they couldn't say anything anyhow because of the NDAs they were bound by.

A few Journalists and Studio owners were invited to and shown 'demos' of LPX a few weeks prior to it's release but the 'demos' were carefully 'managed' and again, those attending had to sign very strict NDAs about what they saw and heard... and could only speak publically about LPX, once it was officially announced and released by Apple.

It is literally, as strange as it appears and as unlikely as it seems....but it is how Apple 'works' and has done so, as I said, for so many years now... Just get used to it and don't expect it to change anytime soon. 🙂

So finally, what i post here, comes from my various sources...or hearing it 'first hand' myself.... or based on my own tests I run at my own studio.. using my test bed Macs that i keep for just such purposes..... and I do my best to ensure it is accurate by cross checking everything with other sources first before posting... but as I always try and get across.. please take such info 'as is'... because things can and do change with Apple and until something is announced 'officlally' by Apple, you can never be 100% sure about anything...

Cheers..

Nigel

p.s. besides, it's just a bunch of hard luck audio guys whining. 😀

Ain't that the truth!

😀

to the point my problem is not logic compatibility it's basically not being able to use my usb2 soundcard or other sound cards because the market is not ready for usb3 . You want the fastest computer you can get for your audio ? Sure here is one , good luck trying get your soundcard or even finding a card that works.i don't see whining in that these are facts !

Organik76,

Pancenter and I were actually being a little cynical as to how certain companies view musicians in general... It was not an intentional slight any anyone here...

Anyhow...

In the case of your Audio Interface, yes.. that seems to be the case...

Note: It doesn't affect all USB2 Interfaces.. just some... depending on how they were designed and if they have drivers, which can be updated to fix certain issues when connected to USB3 ports........and in many cases (though not all) it typically affects the cheaper interfaces because the Devs of those interfaces took 'shortcuts' in the designs to keep prices down... The middle and upper range interfaces tend to work fine in most cases and when then didn't initially, the devs of those devices quickly fixed the issue via firmware and/or driver updates...

Also, none of the FW interfaces are affected and they can all be used via FW to TBolt adaptors for those using macs that don't have a FW port...

The Art Of Sound wrote:

Organik76,

Pancenter and I were actually being a little cynical as to how certain companies view musicians in general... It was not an intentional slight any anyone here...

Absolutely, just kidding...

If there is a point it's that the Pro Audio market is generally a very, very small percentage of Apple's revenue. Small as in tiny!

Have you tried it with a powered USB 2 Hub?