Logic Pro X and Mavericks

Thanks Pancenter, I value and love the points you make an I won't argue with them.

I can't exactly call my upgrade to LPX a willing one. U see I kinda got tricked into it, long story short, I upgraded my Mac Pro cause I wanted more power, after upgrading I realize that there were major issues with Lp8 & 9 under lion and mountain lion (issues that make them totally unusable to a pro user in my opinion) and the only way I could get snow leopard on my more powerful Mac Pro was to buy a disc from the states (I live in South Africa). I don't know if you have ever tried communicating with apple from South Africa, it's a bit of a mission and support is not exactly the same for a SA citizen as it is for a US citizen. So out of desperation I bought LPX and it did solve a number of issues and give enough hope for me to carry on down that road... So here I am... In the middle of an era with Logic and apple where I am at my most unhappy I have ever been.

Also unlike u Pancenter (I am not saying this in a funny way or with attitude, no disrespect intended here) I do care about new technologies and moving with new and innovative ideas designed (hopefully) to make the creative process easier and more fun. I mean if I wasn't i'de still be recording 16bit and swearing by voyetra as my main DAW! Problem is.... Apple's developments has predominately made it more irritating and frustrating.

And what makes it even more sad is I actually totally LOVE LPX! I mean I love what they changed and what was added and how the workflow is envisioned and all the additional bells and whistles you get with it... Fantastic package.... But for the life of me I can't get it to be a responsive and a fast system..... YET.... My last hope is to see if I will have my dream experience on the new gen Mac Pro's (not yet out in SA). All the while feeling very anxious about forking out another couple of thousand RAND just to see if the whole thing will work properly and as it should.

Chance Harper wrote:

Thanks Pancenter, I value and love the points you make an I won't argue with them.

Also unlike u Pancenter (I am not saying this in a funny way or with attitude, no disrespect intended here) I do care about new technologies and moving with new and innovative ideas designed (hopefully) to make the creative process easier and more fun. I mean if I wasn't i'de still be recording 16bit and swearing by voyetra as my main DAW! Problem is.... Apple's developments has predominately made it more irritating and frustrating.

And what makes it even more sad is I actually totally LOVE LPX!

Hey, no problem with any of that, my first MIDI system was at the tail end of 1984, every musician friend I knew at the time were ready to burn me at the stake. I purchsed a MIDI only version of Logic at version 2.x and upgraded to the audio version at 3.x. Also, I've messed around with LPX and also like some of the changes.. and workflow improvements.

I just can't get behind what Apple's doing right now. I feel they "use" their customers to some extent, the release of Final Cut X was an exercise how you use your paying customers as beta testers. Same with Mavericks... why do you think you don't have to pay for the Mavericks upgrade. All of this points to an aim for the semi-pro or non-professional user. I'd rather have an older, stable system that works for me rather than the other way around.

Agree with so many points posted on here, but felt it worth raising the point that SL and LP 9 combination is a well developed solution now, both have reached their development cycle. It wasn't all roses when SL was first released, likewise with LP9 - I had no end of problems when i first had it, LPX for me so far has worked well from day one.

Can't comment on performance as i still use predominately outboard gear still, so Logic isn't being pushed as hard as some on here.

skijumptoes wrote:

Agree with so many points posted on here, but felt it worth raising the point that SL and LP 9 combination is a well developed solution now, both have reached their development cycle. It wasn't all roses when SL was first released, likewise with LP9 - I had no end of problems when i first had it, LPX for me so far has worked well from day one.

Can't comment on performance as i still use predominately outboard gear still, so Logic isn't being pushed as hard as some on here.

Yes, all good.. that's exactly why I stayed on Leopard 10.5.8 until SL reached 10.6.4. For me, Logic 8 was always a bit buggy so L9 seemed to work better right off the bat. The lesson here is generally not upgrade until the dust has settled.

Just to add though.. planned obsolescence seems to be coming at closer intervals.

The Art Of Sound wrote:

Personally the most stable combination of OS X and Logic is still SL 10.6.8 and LP 9.1.5 in my humble opinion....

OMG! You guys are reading my mind!

I am very frustrated with Mavericks right now. Where is Apple going with this nonsense?

Between poor performance and lack of Rosetta, Mavericks is a turd.

LP beyond 9.1.5 is always making Internet connections for no good reason.

I purchased LPX only to find its file formats are incompatible with LP9 so I am prevented from going back to the environment that I like best if I want to take advantage of any new features in LPX (although I'm not yet sure what is really different beyond the look and the file format).

warnergt wrote:

I purchased LPX only to find its file formats are incompatible with LP9 so I am prevented from going back to the environment that I like best if I want to take advantage of any new features in LPX (although I'm not yet sure what is really different beyond the look and the file format).

Must admit, i do like being able to save as a single file and have everything contained within. Generally, for me, LPX is much more stable (Once it's loaded) than LP9 and i'm now finding the workflow much quicker than 9 and making use of smart controls in the stacks etc. They can be really useful especially when designing your own track stacks that you can pull into different projects - I guess all that affects the new file format.

If you can't notice much difference between LP9 and LPX, what prevents you from using LPX? Is it a performance issue that's getting to you?

skijumptoes wrote:

...If you can't notice much difference between LP9 and LPX, what prevents you from using LPX? Is it a performance issue that's getting to you?

Clients who still deliver and want to receive L9 projects for a start……

We really have to plan carefully as not to get into a mess production wise. It really would help if there was some decent backward compatibility available. Once you switch the project to LPX you're stuck, more or less!

My 2 cents anyway……….

Imagine you're playing back your song and you double click on an audio file. You calmly sit and watch it scroll by in dual view (arrange page at the top, waveform window at the bottom) wanting to observe where the peaks and valleys are and get a feel visually for what's happening, when all of a sudden the marker hangs and stops in its tracks. The music of course is still going but the marker isn't following in suite. Then to your utter amazement, the marker and waveform position suddenly snaps back to the updated and valid visual position but it's too late cause for a while there you had no idea where the marker was in the song. And make no mistake this doesn't just happen once or twice but multiple times.

You check your CPU power gauge cause you're confused as to why this just happened and guess what, the 8-cores are not even breaking a sweat, infact 2 of the processors are not even being used! What makes matters worse is that the ram can't even be blamed, because with 4 gig still free surely that can't be the reason for the visual lag.

So now I ask you guys with tears in my eyes, what on earth is the problem? Does anyone have any hint of an idea as to where the weakness might be? And are you guys telling me that this sort of thing is happening to no one but me? I mean my mid 2010 Mac Pro has very similar or at least very close specs to the 2012 Mac Pro's, how can it be too weak to handle Logic Pro X and mountain lion? (Project size of about a 100 channels)

Art, can't I maybe send you a project and then you test it out on one of your systems and tell me if you get this lag crap? I mean guys this is very appart and I don't know how anyone is making music without being distracted by the lag? And from what I understand mavericks haven't made things any better for the power user.

Logic-X uses a different type of graphics handling than L-9 and it's not as efficient (yet?).

Plus the fact that each new version of the operating system uses more graphics horsepower and with larger projects you will see lag. A newer graphics card might help, but I don't know that for sure.

Knock your graphics resolution down to 800x600 pixels, mate. ...What you lose in workspace you gain in screen fluidity! 😉

A dumb question to ask maybe, but you haven't got anything else running that could cause an upset like that have you? I had a few problems with Mountain Lion like that, even on small (for you!) projects of 20 tracks.

It turned out to be that i had the main osx desktop background image changing every 15/30 minutes (I know, i'm a tart!). So, could well be as Pan says a graphical bottleneck of some sort. But man... 100 tracks, i can't even think in terms of that kind of project size, how many tracks are actually playing at one time in a project like that?

skijumptoes wrote:

But man... 100 tracks, i can't even think in terms of that kind of project size, how many tracks are actually playing at one time in a project like that?

Yes, it does boggle the mind. However, as I posted above, the one friend who updated to the latest Mavericks/Logic combination on an older Mac Pro also had generally sluggish response compared to L-9 in ML.

Skijumptoes, I gave the whole graphics res drop a try and I cant really say that it made a difference. Still had delayed reaction when group selecting.

I can however say that apart from the fact the 10.0.5. gives me some delayed reaction when group selecting, in most other arreas, it was well worth the upgrade and LPX is a lot more stable and reliable. I feel like with time, LPX, mountain lion/mavericks might actually start becoming solid and responsive. I will also be trying it out on the new Mac Pro's and see if it's responsivenss on flagship machines are more like what I was used to under Snow Leopard.

The fact that you guys say you don't normally need that many trax does suprise me, it must just be the different genres or production styles. To also answer a previous question... no not all 100 channels are playing at the same time.

Here's a pic of the song that's almost ready to be mixed and mastered. Both pics are of the same song, doesnt fit in one screenshot.

This sort of song size is quite normal for my type of work and the reason why I have such issues is cause I had gotten so use to doing this on a 4 core machine under snow leopard and it was snappy and responsive.

hello,

Just wanting your views here if you have a mo...

I run Omnisphere a LOT in my Logic 9 projects. I'm currently part way through a new album project.

Just upgraded (?) to Mavericks. Thinking of also upgrading to Logic X.

Any observations/insights that I might consider before moving fwd?

thanks so much

Will

Middle of NowHere, in some remote, snowy Canadian mountains.

Hi, do you have any specific info in mind? And may I inquire why on earth you want to update being in the process of finishing a project? Has boredom in the Middle of NowHere something to do with it?

Have a nice day!