Exchange servers and Mavericks Mail

peter_watt wrote:

Don't worry, those on level 2 and above mostly monitor the forum. You may have noticed your last post was removed.

Yes. I find it deeply interesting that my message was removed, while direct personal insults from csound and inked remain. That's an interesting statement on Apple's part: apparently Apple chooses to support people who attack and insult people who report actual problems.

I did not call you a liar, I linked to the post containing the text you claimed not to have posted, if you consider that to be a lie why post it in the first place.

I also did not question your ability, (although I do now question your ability to get your lab to work correctly). I assumed that a recalcitrant IT dept was at work but now that you have cleared that misunderstanding up I know that it is in fact your responsibility.

Your posts were removed by the moderators for violating the Terms of Use for this site, if you are not familiar with those terms there is a link to them at the bottom of the page.

And (obviously) you can do as you please with your business, I do not respond to threats, however couched.

I had it removed because it was a direct insult using inappropriate language. That overshadowed your main point of complaint. Nothing to do with Apple or their views.

I gave you the best commercial advice. Get your desktop buyer to talk to your Apple supplier. Apple do not read these posts.

jorhett,

Since none of us are experiencing major issues with Mac Mail it is hard to diagnose. There's still some minor issues, but Apple is aware and it does not impact users to the degree you are mentioning. A few hunderd Mac's that are on Exchange servers one way or another and no more major issues since updating to 10.9.2 and also making sure the Exchange server is fully patched.

Csound1 wrote:

I did not call you a liar, I linked to the post containing the text you claimed not to have posted, if you consider that to be a lie why post it in the first place.

I also did not question your ability, (although I do now question your ability to get your lab to work correctly). I assumed that a recalcitrant IT dept was at work but now that you have cleared that misunderstanding up I know that it is in fact your responsibility.

Your posts were removed by the moderators for violating the Terms of Use for this site, if you are not familiar with those terms there is a link to them at the bottom of the page.

And (obviously) you can do as you please with your business, I do not respond to threats, however couched.

"If you told the truth" is calling me a liar. "More BS" is also calling me a liar. I never misspoke, you are just making up things and attacking me based on not reading what I wrote. I was very clear on every message.

Those are personal attacks. Your posts should be removed.

I could also go back and find one after another of you calling other people stupid and incompetent too.

Apple needs to either censor you, or lose our business for failing to provide a professional forum.

peter_watt wrote:

I had it removed because it was a direct insult using inappropriate language. That overshadowed your main point of complaint. Nothing to do with Apple or their views.

I gave you the best commercial advice. Get your desktop buyer to talk to your Apple supplier. Apple do not read these posts.

Why exactly are you not removing Csound's posts? I am unable to find a single one of his posts that doesn't contain multiple personal insults.

And "inappropriate language"? I said "adults are talking here" -- was the sum total of what you might consider objectionable. Csound says "idiot" and "bullsh*t" and various other things. Exactly why are his posts not removed?

I did say "It s-ucks for me" in my original post (which is not an insult or attack on anyone else) but when I saw that s-ucks became astericks I replaced the word. So there isn't a single inappropriate word in that post.

bradhs wrote:

jorhett,

Since none of us are experiencing major issues with Mac Mail it is hard to diagnose. There's still some minor issues, but Apple is aware and it does not impact users to the degree you are mentioning. A few hunderd Mac's that are on Exchange servers one way or another and no more major issues since updating to 10.9.2 and also making sure the Exchange server is fully patched.

On what basis are you defining major issue? If a user has to reboot they could lose hours of work shutting down the Fusion VMs on their systems and restarting them. It's a major interruption. This is what you've listed as the known workaround (which our testing agrees with)

If they are required to reboot to get outbound messages to go out, that's a major problem. Where do you define minor?

If they receive meeting invites an hour after the meeting occurred, do you consider this minor? Some of us have both PC and Mac desktops and we can compare when the messages arrive on each.

Exchange server 2010 fully patched to latest revs. We can also reproduce identical client behavior with Exchange Server 2007 patched to latest revs.

More than six months after its lauch, Mavericks Mail is still "bugged" with Exchange - even with the 10.9.2 update Mavericks Mail keep creating huge problems for corporate Mac users - that depend on Mail Exchange servers to be connected.

It's amazing how Apple is completely unable to solve such serious sofware bugs for so long and ignores how this attitude is destroying its reputation for fiability in the corporate and business world - and in so many Apple users around the world.

peter_watt wrote:

I had it removed because it was a direct insult using inappropriate language. That overshadowed your main point of complaint. Nothing to do with Apple or their views.

And now you have removed 5 more messages full of technical content accurately describing bugs in the product and with no insults or snide remarks.

You have left Csound's snide remarks and insults for everyone to see.

I think you've made it clear where Apple stands on this issue. You've lost a significant amount of business today. The $14k that I personally spent on Apple products in the last twelve months is a pittance in that regard.

Csound1 wrote:

The moderators decide which posts are removed and which are not, abide by their decisions.

The forum ToS does not say that technical content is inappropriate. It does say that direct insults like you generally spew out are inappropriate. They are not implementing the ToS. They have no basis for removing those posts.

They have however made Apple's policy on addressing their own bugs quite clear: insult the reporter with a purely technical message is OK. Technical messages that demonstrate bugs are not okay.

Has 10.9.3 fixed anything for anyone?

I've been working sort of OK for a bit. I just had to remove a ton of older emails. Sometimes it gets caught when I'm deleting a lot of emails at once.

Due to this, I'm considering moving my 18 person company up to Mavericks.

Would love to hear others users recent experiences.

I've been using Apple's Mail client with my employer's (a university) Exchange server since Snow Leopard. I've had none of the issues described above and things are generally faster with Mavericks and with fewer problems than with any prior version of OS X.

One trick I've learned is that with each major update to Mac OS X (eg, 10.8 to 10.9), it's better to completely delete my Exchange account and start a new one.

One trick I've learned is that with each major update to Mac OS X (eg, 10.8 to 10.9), it's better to completely delete my Exchange account and start a new one.

Most of these systems are Mavericks from start, not upgrades. We are blocking existing systems from upgrading due to the huge list of issues we have open with Apple support.

@musicservice: I gave up on Mavericks Mail recently, and switched my Exchange account to Airmail Beta. Must say this was a good move. Airmail has worked swiftly and flawlessly so far with what Mail was becoming highly unreliable.

Note: my server backend is not a genuine Exchange server but a Kerio Connect. The symptoms I've experienced match the ones described on this list though.

I'd say it's about trust. Apple lost mine regarding Mail. So much money. So few fixes. A few-people startup seems to be way better at it (as always...!)

Mail connected to my Exchange server failed just after I upgraded to Mavericks. Tried various solutions. Turned to OWA on the exchange server and this worked.

Went back to Mail based upon this thread: cancelled my account, re-connected. Able to send and receive emails, although with delay as compared to my iphone or iPad.

Other issue: some email folders have not synchronized fully with my Exchange folders, while this works on iPhone and iPad. Not acceptable.

Cannot lose anymore time with deficient Mail/Maverick/Exchange relationships...

Send us a post card when they work again together...

I am testing Armail app: looks good until now.