Why is Now Up to Date broken?

MichaelLax, this solution seems to have been proposed by others before, but you do understand how bizarre and cludgey it is, don't you? Here we are, Mac users, because we are generally more creative types, perhaps design-oriented, right-brained people, right? And here, in one proposal, to get one program working, you're proposing not only implementing Parallels, which many of us have little or no experience with, but also multiple partitions on disk (to run Snow Leopard Server on one of them).

Don't get me wrong, it is much appreciated to have a suggested solution on the table. But to take a step back from it and look at it with a "Mac world view," it just doesn't fit. It reminds me of the computer hobbyists from the early PC days, building their own boxes, trying to get them to work.

In that vein, I still don't even know why NUDC doesn't work in Mavericks. I have yet to read anything describing what the difficulty is. I had thought it was just a 32 bit thing at first, but running my iMac in 32 bit mode didn't change anything. I keep thinking that if we knew what the fundamental issue was, rather than simply "it doesn't work in Mavericks," we might be able to focus on that specific thing to get it to work. Thoughts?

Keith Gardner1 wrote:

In that vein, I still don't even know why NUDC doesn't work in Mavericks. I have yet to read anything describing what the difficulty is. I had thought it was just a 32 bit thing at first, but running my iMac in 32 bit mode didn't change anything. I keep thinking that if we knew what the fundamental issue was, rather than simply "it doesn't work in Mavericks," we might be able to focus on that specific thing to get it to work. Thoughts?

Look at the accepted answer, it really has been covered already (& has been repeated multiple times), no amount of circular reasoning is going to make this work. The answer is not going to change if you simply overlook it & choose to ignore the reasons that have been explained.

PowerPC code doesn't run on Intel Macs without a 'translation layer' to convert the fundamentally different code. This was called Rosetta & shipped with 10.4, 10.5 & 10.6.

Any Mac OS after that is unable to run PowerPC code, which is why you will need to run 10.6 in a virtual machine. 10.6 Server is the last 'Rossetta capable' OS Apple allowed to legally run in a virtual machine, so you will need to buy that if you hope to run NUD inside VMWare, Parallels, VirtualBox etc.

You are attempting to run something unsupported, out of date that was complied for another CPU instruction set - it just won't work with modern Macs.

Your situation is akin to classic car enthusiasts - they cannot pop into the local garage for a major overhaul, however they can spend 3 days calling every old repair shop & salvage yard in a 500 mile radius to find parts & someone to fix there out of date car (which may be the most beautiful car you'll ever see, but it is still a relic). 10 year old software is effectively antique & will become a relic once machines cease to support the old OS's inside a VM.

Weak analogies aside, it may be prudent to find the best condition 'old Mac' that runs 10.6 & keep that running for as long as you can. Or find someone who can setup a VM on 10.9 - they really are not as complex as you think.

VM's can also add a little extra security to an OS that has had all it's vulnerabilities publicly revealed over the years.

Keith Gardner1 wrote:

MichaelLax, this solution seems to have been proposed by others before, but you do understand how bizarre and cludgey it is, don't you?

No! Of the hundreds of people that I have worked with to restore Rosetta capability in a Lion, Mt. Lion and Mavericks world, you are the FIRST to make such a suggestion.

Keith Gardner1 wrote:

And here, in one proposal, to get one program working, you're proposing not only implementing Parallels, which many of us have little or no experience with, but also multiple partitions on disk (to run Snow Leopard Server on one of them).

Does right-brained effect ones ability to read instructions clearly? Where did I suggest anything about partitioning ones hard drive?

Keith Gardner1 wrote:

Don't get me wrong, it is much appreciated to have a suggested solution on the table. But to take a step back from it and look at it with a "Mac world view," it just doesn't fit.

You can lead a mule to water...

10,000 successful users of PowerPC apps in Lion, Mt. Lion and Mavericks can't be wrong!

Don't get me wrong: if you don't like it; don't use it! It is just a port in a non-Rosetta storm...

Drew Reece wrote:

10.6 Server is the last 'Rossetta capable' OS Apple allowed to legally run in a virtual machine, so you will need to buy that if you hope to run NUD inside VMWare, Parallels, VirtualBox etc.

It was a common Urban Myth that Snow Leopard's EULA prohibited its virtualization in Lion, Mt. Lion and Mavericks on a Mac. That myth has been largely debunked in the last two years.

Once Apple made the decision to discount the cost of Snow Leopard Server by 95%, to the same $19.95 as Snow Leopard client, the debate became largely moot.

I don't doubt what you say but are you sure it's a myth?

I recollect having to replace kexts to boot early 10.6 client inside Virtualbox, I did run 10.6 server in a VM fine though. Perhaps it was just incompatibilities in earlier VBox?

This was all on 10.6.

Drew Reece wrote:

I don't doubt what you say but are you sure it's a myth?

Isn't that an oxymoron!?! 😁

Drew Reece wrote:

This was all on 10.6.

I made no statement with regard to the Snow Leopard EULA and running Snow Leopard in virtualization in Snow Leopard. Please reread my statement.

Oxymorinic, yep 🙂

That suggests the original 10.6 licence agreement was to not allow OS X client to be virtualized, so doesn't the 'myth' fall over? There was relief in users I knew back when 10.7 allowed client to be virtualized legitimately.

Drew Reece wrote:

That suggests the original 10.6 licence agreement was to not allow OS X client to be virtualized, so doesn't the 'myth' fall over? There was relief in users I knew back when 10.7 allowed client to be virtualized legitimately.

"That suggests..." - I do not understand what you are trying to say here.

In any event, if it again speaks to an environment where your experience was running Snow Leopard in virtualization within Snow Leopard, you will not be able to get me to comment on that experience.

My assistance in this regard is limited exclusively to those who attempt to run Snow Leopard in virtualization in Lion, Mt. Lion and Mavericks on a Mac; primarily for the purpose of bringing back Rosetta to allow PowerPC apps functionality.

There was no such reason to run Snow Leopard in virtualization in Snow Leopard, as the base machine could already install Rosetta from the Mac OS X Snow Leopard Install DVD.

Your reason must have been otherwise, and hence is outside the scope of my assistance.

My answer would be the same if you were attempting to run Snow Leopard in virtualization on a Hackintosh!

I was refering to your lack of reference to the 10.6 EULA. Whatever was added in newer OS's doesn't effect the original 10.6 EULA.

10.6 client running in a VM was a consequence of Apple allowing 10.7 client to run in a VM.

Drew Reece wrote:

I was refering to your lack of reference to the 10.6 EULA.

Maybe it is me, and if so, I apologize, but I am still confused by your statement. Here is my original reference:

It was a common Urban Myth that Snow Leopard's EULA prohibited its virtualization in Lion, Mt. Lion and Mavericks on a Mac.

As you can see I DID reference the Snow Leopard 10.6 EULA.

Drew Reece wrote:

Whatever was added in newer OS's doesn't effect the original 10.6 EULA.

We are largely in agreement there.

Drew Reece wrote:

10.6 client running in a VM was a consequence of Apple allowing 10.7 client to run in a VM.

I still do not understand what you are trying to say here either; sorry! 😕

trevorpsy wrote:

Thanks for the Rosetta info. I had heard that Apple didn't license Rosetta from IBM, because Apple and IBM are on poor terms.

It is doubtful that IBM (who purchased the technologies underlying Rosetta from the third party who originally licensed it to Apple) would have licensed Rosetta back to Apple on financially acceptable terms, even if Apple were inclined to do so.

Six years of supporting PowerPC apps on Intel Macs is about the same period of time that Apple continued to support the Classic Environment in OS X before it eliminated the Classic Environment in Intel Tiger.

But NUDC was working on Mountain Lion... It only broke in Mavericks.

Ah, I guess I missed (or forgot) that fact due to the length of this thread.

In that case there is no point in running Snow Leopard in virtualization to regain access to Rosetta. Perhaps that is why you were throwing so much "right-brained" mud on my suggestion... 😁

I guess in theory, if one is wedded to running Mavericks, they could use Parallels to run Mountain Lion in virtualization so as to have the ability to run NUD concurrently. That is not my mission here, so suffice it to say. I have not tried it.

PS: Parallels is easy to run and, just like the first time you ran NUD, it may seem daunting at first!