Reapplying the Thermal Grease

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http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?s=c8e2d45e5acbfafb771e8d2f01989f 29&threadid=1864582&perpage=40&pagenumber=12

from page 12
I've just pulled apart my Macbook - purchased about two weeks ago. It was running at about 85 degrees celsius at load, 60 degrees at idle - far hotter than any other laptop I've owned.

Edit: Note that this is a Macbook and NOT a Macbook Pro - I hadn't seen many posts regarding this so far. It's the 2.0ghz model and I've got a gigabyte of RAM in there.

Let me give you a bit of background as it is somewhat relevant here. I work at a computer store, and service laptops regularly. I've seen some terrible, terrible thermal applications by hardware vendors, most notably HP and Compaq laptops. Interestingly enough, this is usually more prevalent on the models with desktop Pentium 4 chips (Socket 478 Prescott chips - the ones that get really freaking hot).

In reapplying thermal paste, the laptops perform much better, (often they will not boot due to thermal overload beforehand) in that the fans are slower and are turned on far less which results in greater battery life, and a computer that you can actually sit on your lap! Perhaps this is the mysterious difference between a 'laptop' and a 'notebook'.

Taking the laptop apart, I was amazed when I pulled off the heat sink to reveal a ghastly mess of what I can only describe as 'mercury-man CPU bukkake funfest 200%'

I'll attach a picture of what I found - but it was around 3 millimetres of gunk sticking up off the heatsink which would have been surrounding the cores. The thermal paste had clearly already dried around both cores.. this machine is only two weeks old!

I cleaned this off with contact cleaner (available at most electronics/hardware stores) and an old, clean rag. I've found this is by far the best method to clean off thermal paste, as the contact cleaner removes the gunk really quickly and also evaporates fairly quickly, saving you from any liquid damage to your precious CPU. Throw the rag out straight away, as thermal paste is very messy and often carcinogenic. I think it can give you the AIDS, too.

I use Arctic Silver 5 when reapplying thermal paste - I've found it works very well in stabilising the CPU temperature, unlike many which just seem to lower the overall temperature. As instructed on the AS5 packaging, I apply a paper thin layer using an applicator such as an old loyalty card or other glossy piece of cardboard - others have mentioned this in the thread. I will repeat what has been said only to prevent the equipment of forum readers: when using a product such as AS5, apply only a pinhead or rice grain sized amount of paste.

APPLYING LARGE AMOUNTS OF THERMAL PASTE RESTRICTS HEAT FLOWING FROM THE CPU TO THE HEAT SINK, AND THE THERMAL PASTE MAY HARDEN. THIS COULD CAUSE DAMAGE TO YOUR CPU OR OTHER COMPONENTS.

Once you've applied a paper thin layer to the CPU core, reseat the heat sink and move it around slightly to achieve the most even spread of paste.

And the results have been fantastic. I've gone from an idle temperature of 60 to 70 degrees down to around 40 to 45 degrees celsius. At load, the laptop will now reach about 60 degrees. This irons my trousers far less than the 80 to 85 degree load temperatures I was experiencing before reapplying the thermal paste. I'd been compiling some linux software using fink, and it was getting terribly hot and the fans were going at a constant high speed. I have only heard the fans running at about half speed since and I've been quite happily compiling software on my lap.


dual 1ghtz quicksilver 2002 Mac OS X (10.4.2)

Apple may frown on people posting links or advice here in the Discussions that will cause you to void your warranty. You might be better off visiting a site like Accelerate Your Mac for subject like yours.

-Doug

If you did a little research in the forums you'd find this topic has been well-beaten to death. Some Google searching will reveal several articles covering such a repair including two that conclude it's a waste of time and effort. See the following: http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2006/05/23/thermal-paste-question.html.

Bear in mind that any damage you may cause will not be covered by your warranty.

Keep in mind that one reason so-called repaired MBs and MBPs run cooler is because the user forgets to re-connect the sensor wires for the fans causing the fans to run continuously. This is the reason the computer runs cooler, not because the thermal paste is re-applied. Furthermore, as long as the "seal" between the two mated surfaces is OK it really doesn't make much difference that surplus thermal paste has oozed out on the external surroundings. It may not look pretty, but it doesn't mean there's a problem.

My MBP typically runs at a core temperature between 50 and 60 C. Under near maximum load the core temperature may rise to 83-85 C. According to Intel documentation this is quite normal for the Core Duo processor. The CPU is also designed to shut down if the core temperature exceeds 125 C. The System Management Control firmware is designed to throttle the CPU as well as the fans in order to control temperatures.

I doubt I'll be cause ing much damage, but i o
understand that I will voiding the warranty. And
that article is talking abouta MacBook Pro. From
what I've seen reapplying the thermal grease will
indeed help to cool own the MacBook

If it were me I would wait for a possible future smc firmware update for the macbook (MBP smc firmware updates did eventually arrive from apple to address these types of issues). However, if you are confident about taking apart your Notebook, and some are, then re-applying thermal paste may be the way for you to go.

I would not do it.

1. You know you will void the warranty. Suppose, hypothetically, that Apple decided to do some major rework on existing MacBooks. You might be excluded.

2. As others have said, there is serious doubt that the thermal grease "fix" is effective. For example, just taking apart and reassembling will change the contact between the chips and heat pipe. Maybe it's not the grease at all.

It does not void the warranty. Only if you cause damage to the computer, in which case your warranty will not cover repairs for the damage you caused. Your warranty remains intact with respect to all else.

Well, I don't know any more about what kind of thermal grease Apple is using than you. So your assumption is just that - an assumption with no basis in fact. Furthermore, I doubt that the cost of the grease is such an important factor in overall production cost that a penny's worth one way or the other is going to matter. I'm also willing to accept that the thermal grease used is adequate for the job even if it's not Arctic Silver. Were the cost of the grease that important Apple might have been concerned about the excess.

But be that as it may you have the prior experience to do the disassembly, so if you're that dead set on the idea you should do it. However, if you do be sure to take careful before and after temperature measurements (using the same measurement method) as well as being sure you re-connect the fan sensor cables. Then report the results back here. I'm sure everyone will be interested.

I would be concerned about doing this work with early MacBooks because they are already suffering issues with faulty logic boards so a warranty claim is more likely. You do not want to leave yourself exposed to the risk that Apple may refuse a warranty claim due to thermal grease not being a user replacable part.

My MacBook has already had a logic board replacement (but is currently lost during shipping).

...even if the thermal grease is applied
right, the material it's made out of is the biggest
factor. I doubt Apple is shelling out the extra loot
for quality grease.

I think you're misunderstanding the potential problem that has been reported, it's not the quality of the thermal grease that is has been criticized by some, it is the amount applied, i.e. too much causing the high temps.

Well, I don't know any more about what kind of thermal grease
Apple is using than you. So your assumption is just that - an >assumption with no basis in fact.

Actually no, there's evidense floating around the net of some brave souls who opened their Macbooks (and MacBook Pros) in attempt to identify the cause of the high temps.

What they found was that the thermal grease was not inferior [to AS5] but rather it was gooped on. Thermal Grease's job is to fill in the tiny voids and imperfections between the cpu and the heat sink thus increasing the heat transfer. When too much is applied it has an opposite effect trapping heat.

If you view the Artic Silver website they show you putting on a razor thin lay of the stuff. Barely enough to coat the cpu.

Reports of the Macbook getting this done have show around a 10c savings I myself did this and found that to be the case - the temp savings and the fact that the thermal grease was gooped all over the place. It doesn't make the Macbook run cooler per-se it just aids the evacuation of the heat from the cpu. That is when doing something intensive the temps rise, but cool down prety quickly.

The operation isn't all that difficult but you need to be careful as any damage incurred will not be covered. What I did was record where each screw went (many of them are different sizes). Slowly remove the connections and screws from the fan and heat sink. The trickiest part I found was removing the keyboard assembly. If memory servers me correctly the right side of the keyboard had tabs on it and it was a little tricky working it loose. Other then that it was fine.

I have no regrets regard the operation, I still needed the Lapinator but instead of idling at 62c it idles at 53c. Normal surfing light work is between 58c and 63c. Before it was mid to high 60s.

Mike


Mini MacBook Mac SE

Actually no, there's evidence floating around the net
of some brave souls who opened their Macbooks (and
MacBook Pros) in attempt to identify the cause of the
high temps.
What they found was that the thermal grease was not
inferior [to AS5] but rather it was gooped on.
Thermal Grease's job is to fill in the tiny voids
and imperfections between the cpu and the heat sink
thus increasing the heat transfer. When too much is
applied it has an opposite effect trapping heat.
If you view the Artic Silver website they show you
putting on a razor thin lay of the stuff. Barely
enough to coat the cpu.
Reports of the Macbook getting this done have show
around a 10c savings I myself did this and found
that to be the case - the temp savings and the fact
that the thermal grease was gooped all over the
place. It doesn't make the Macbook run cooler per-se
it just aids the evacuation of the heat from the cpu.
That is when doing something intensive the temps
rise, but cool down prety quickly.

I think the point to make here is that this may be a quality control issue in the productions of some MBP (and Macbook) laptops. Clearly it does not effect all, e.g. the internal cpu temps for my own MBP are 57 and 58 C (Temp Monitor) when running with better performance checked in the system prefs, i.e. much lower than the 80+ C reported here and elsewhere for their cpus!. Perhaps this explains why for some MBP users the smc firmware updates have proved insufficient, and perhaps re-greasing (DIY for now) is the only alternative. Maybe the experiences of MBP owners will prove invaluable to Macbook owners who face similar issues.

I reapplied my thermal greese. not only was the amount of grease not bad on the original setup but reapplying the Artic Silver 5 really didn't help any. I still idle at 70C.