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Remove Mavericks

A couple years ago, I bought a Mac with the worst virus I've ever encountered, it was called Lion. No problem though, just used target disc mode and installed Apple's last functional OS, Snow Leopard. It seems that they've even destroyed target disc mode. Does anyone have instructions on how to get Snow Leopard on a brand new MacBook Pro Retina display that came pre-installed with Mavericks?


Any help on ridding this computer of Mavericks will be greatly appreciated.


<Edited by Host>

MacBook Pro (Retina, 13-inch, Late 2013), OS X Mavericks (10.9.1)

Posted on Dec 20, 2013 6:49 PM

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29 replies

Dec 22, 2013 6:53 AM in response to davebodia

If you really want to try it, install Snow Leopard to a USB drive, then try booting you new Mac from USB external. It will either work or it will not. It is an easy enough test. If you do not have Snow Leopard install disks, you can use SuperDuper or Carbon Copy Cloner to copy your existing Snow Leopard to an external USB drive.


Or get a Thundetbolt to FireWire adapter and use target mode.


Note: if you are going to use the forum to get comfortable with Mavericks, I would suggest new posts, with topic per post. That avoids the discussion focusing on one item and ignoring the other things you would like addresses.

Dec 22, 2013 7:01 AM in response to davebodia

Because installing SL over Lion is nothing but a minor hassle. I figured Mavericks was the same way. Apple said you can't install SL over Lion but you could. Why would this OS be any different unless it was intentionally made so we have no choice?

It isn't really the "installing over <other OS>" that is the problem. The newer Macs have hardware that the older OS's can't deal with. If you have a Mac that sold at about the time of the release of a new OS, it may be able to be booted by the previous OS. However, once the newer hardware has been integrated into the new machines, the older OS cannot boot the newer Mac. Apple doesn't update older OS's to be compatible with newer hardware. It isn't an 'OS' company like Microsoft. Apple is a hardware company that produces software to be used on that hardware.

Dec 22, 2013 8:00 AM in response to Lexiepex

Bob, you must have a bootable SL stick then, to do that.

I do not know what you mean by "stick". Are you referring to a USB stick, as when Mac OS X Lion was available either download or via a USB Stick (thunb drive)?


If he has the Snow Leopard installation DVD, he can create a bootable external drive with Snow Leopard on it from a Mac that currently runs Snow Leopard (or currently runs Leopard, maybe even Tiger).


Or if he has a running Mac OS X Snow Leopard system, he could clone the running system onto an external USB drive (SuperDuper or Carbon Copy Cloner will both create bootable external drives that are clones of the running system).


He could then try to boot the external USB drive from his new Mac holding down the "Option" key during boot to get a selection of available boot drives.


At that point it might not even see the Snow Leopard external drive. If the new Mac does see the Snow Leopard drive, then he could select it and see if it boots. If it does, then he can see if it is functional, such as does networking work/WiFi, does the retina display work correctly, bluetooth for wireless keyboard/mouse/trackpad, can he use an external monitor via the DisplayPort/Thunderbolt port, can he use USB3 devices or even a USB2 device (assume if he managed to get this far, it did see and use the USB2 device).


I suspect if Snow Leopard boots at all a lot of things will not work, or will work marginally. But it is he system, and he wants to experiment, the best we can do is point out the potential problems, but let him have at it.

Dec 22, 2013 5:13 PM in response to davebodia

davebodia,


Apple didn’t release a new Mac Pro model in 2011; the newest Mac Pro available in August 2011 was the Mid 2010 model, and the Mid 2010 Mac Pro supports Snow Leopard 10.6.4 and after — that’s why there was no problem with that iShop installing Snow Leopard on it, even though yours came from Apple with Lion preïnstalled.

Dec 22, 2013 11:38 PM in response to Melophage

Melophage- the model itself may have not been brand new but Lion had only been getting pre-installed for about a week when I bought mine, that was late August 2011.


Anybody please clarify:

SL - 32 & 64-bit,

Lion & Mt. Lion - 64-bit, and any Lion/Mt. Lion model runs seamlessly with SL,

Mavericks - 64-bit.

Why can SL run one full 64-bit system seamlessly but not run another 64-bit system at all (unless the harware was intentionally configured as to not allow it)?


To be clear, I'm a Mac hardware fan, I've never been a Mac support fan (a company of this size that doesn't have e-mail communication is dumbfounding), and until about 5 years ago, I was a Mac software fan. That's when Apple did the unthinkable; they dropped Rosetta (something they ardently and repeatedly stated they would never ever do just a few months earlier). I understand that Mac is doing anything they possibly can to get people to sign-up for their 24hr a day tracking services ie, Maps, AppStore, etc... Fact is, Apple has no concern as to what works best for users. If they did, the latest glitch they put out, Mav, wouldn't have been put out yet; it's glitch after glitch (I'll be posting Mav issues after I find out if the iStore can install SL Client or Server). SL literally ran flawlessly; no freezing, no screens of death, etc... That's all I want, a computer that functions as a computer, not some stupid social networking center.


Ex., Ford (Microsoft) and Ferrari (Apple), are the only two vehicles available. With Ferrari we know we're buying a great machine, with Ford... millions available and a bit cheaper but overall, not so great. Problem is, Ferrari is now telling us just a few months after they under no uncertain terms told us tires would be available forever, that not now and not ever will there be tires for this model so, tough luck, get use to driving it with no tires.


petermac87- I forgot to mention this yesterday, the only reason why millions of users have switched over and are using these latest programs is because Apple doesn't give you the choice. Lion, Mt. Lion, Mav & Win8 are nearly the exact same programs with the exact same glitches and problems.


What Apple and Microsoft could accomplish if they could lose the egos and arrogance, recognize that most people do NOT want to be tracked, and work together, the possibilities would be vast. With the garbage propaganda being taught in public schools, kids are actually growing up thinking being tracked is a good thing. It's as if Apple, Microsoft and the Feds conjured up their OS's together. Heck, something as incredibly simple as having two OS's available would be huge and simple (simple because there's already programs available like that, but they've gone out of their way to make sure SL can't be used); one for those who like being tracked, one for those who like their privacy. Microsoft saying they're dropping XP support early next year is inconceivable. Over 30% of computers worldwide still use XP but Bill don't care. Same with SL. Fact is, Apple.com forum is the only place I've ever seen more than one or two people praise an Apple OS since SL. Basically the world disliked Lion/Mt.Lion just as the world dislikes Win8; they're train wrecks. I used Lion for a while and I've yet to see even one thing different with Mav.


Need an account for updates,

No Rosetta,

Preview is so bad now I've had to look for other simple editing programs,

Finder is so glitchy I don't even know which issue to start with, will probably just use MuCommander or the like,

This acct. linked to that acct., linked to that acct., linked to... you get the picture, that's also the picture of where all the problems lay, tying all the social networking junk together.


It looks as if I'll have to learn a new program and from what I've seen, it's probably not going to be Mav but we'll see. Maybe Linux. I just want a computer, not a laptop cellphone. If I wasn't in Asia, I'd have already returned this thing and bought last years model instead.


That said, I'm done ranting. My next post/s will be questions on how to fix things. Thanks for all the replies.

Dec 22, 2013 11:48 PM in response to davebodia

davebodia wrote:


petermac87- I forgot to mention this yesterday, the only reason why millions of users have switched over and are using these latest programs is because Apple doesn't give you the choice.

Somewhere in that sensless rant I saw my name.

And after it some ridiculuosly ill-informed statement about every Mac user being given no choice but to use Mavericks. Where did you make that one up? No one was forced to update. It is a personal choice. Obviously one that many many millions of people decided to choose. (And are nowhere to be seen lamenting their choice). Many stayed with Mountain Lion, Lion and some have never moved from Snow Leopard. It would really help if you could back up your rubbish with some slight shred of evidence.


Pete

Dec 23, 2013 8:15 AM in response to davebodia

davebodia wrote:


Melophage- the model itself may have not been brand new but Lion had only been getting pre-installed for about a week when I bought mine, that was late August 2011.


Anybody please clarify:

SL - 32 & 64-bit,

Lion & Mt. Lion - 64-bit, and any Lion/Mt. Lion model runs seamlessly with SL

It all depends on the hardware in the Mac. Any Mac that only has hardware that Snow Leopard knows about will be able to boot Snow Leopard.

The Macs that have newer hardware than Snow Leopard knows about cannot be booted by Snow Leopard. Snow Leopard does not have the drivers to make the hardware work, so it cannot boot that Mac.


When Apple creates new hardware, they don't update the old OS to work with the new hardware. They create a new OS to handle the new hardware.


If you do not understand this statement, please state as much since I've already posted it once before, but you don't seem to understand. It also can be that I can't figure out that you actually understand the principal based on what I quoted above. If you somehow explained your understanding later on, tldr;

Dec 23, 2013 8:37 PM in response to davebodia

davebodia,

Anybody please clarify:

SL - 32 & 64-bit,

Lion & Mt. Lion - 64-bit, and any Lion/Mt. Lion model runs seamlessly with SL,

Mavericks - 64-bit.

Why can SL run one full 64-bit system seamlessly but not run another 64-bit system at all (unless the hardware was intentionally configured as to not allow it)?


to clarify your understanding above:


  • your understanding of Snow Leopard and Mavericks is wholly correct;
  • your understanding of Lion and Mountain Lion is partially correct: they are 64-bit, but any model Mac that is preïnstalled with Lion or Mountain Lion (or Mavericks), but did not originally come preïnstalled with Snow Leopard when first released, cannot run seamlessly with Snow Leopard. For example, your Mid 2010 Mac Pro is able to run Snow Leopard because when it was first released, it originally came with Snow Leopard preïnstalled; even though Apple later shipped the same model preïnstalled with Lion, that model could still be “downgraded” to Snow Leopard, because Snow Leopard supports all of the hardware on the Mid 2010 Mac Pro. On the other hand, because the Late 2011 MacBook Pro was first released with Lion preïnstalled, Snow Leopard cannot be installed on it — because Snow Leopard does not have all of the drivers for its hardware.


It is not that Apple hardware over the past couple of years has been configured to not allow Snow Leopard installation; it is that Snow Leopard does not have the drivers — the low-level software that communicates directly with the hardware — to support the more recent Apple hardware. As I’d stated previously, the problem is software, not hardware.

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