Is there a way of Automating track volumes in finer increments of +/-0.1dB?

James,

The only way I've found to get Logic to register in smaller increments is when holding down CMD and moving the yellow automation bar (arrange page) ---- it's the vertical yellow bar that moves up and down to reflect the current value of volume automation. Normally this move is for trimming the overall level of the automation on a track, and you can get .1 dB resolution from it. But it's not a practical control for mixing, natch.

The volume scale for Logic's faders is not linear. Many months ago I mapped out the values, and yes, there are sometimes fairly large jumps between them. This is out of necessity when given only 127 steps (7 bit controller resolution). But I seem to remember measuring:

• smallest volume difference between adjacent fader steps: .1 dB
• largest volulme difference between adjacent fader steps: .3 dB

Of course it would be better if Logic used a 14-bit controller resolution, but that's not the case...

And just for perspective, if I remember correctly, the finest increment you could get from SSL G-series console fader automation was .25 dB per step (a quarter dB). Logic's coarsest value is .3 dB, not far off...

Logic doesn't use 127 steps for volume automation, it's just the onscreen faders are pretty crude - there's only so many pixels on your monitor, and the smallest on-screen fader move you can make is a 1 pixel change.

Using a Logic Control for example gives you about 10000 steps on a full-throw fader, which is *much much* better than mixing on screen.

Bee Jay,

In either the event editor or the (hidden) automation tracks, Logic only displays values for fader movements as MIDI-style events that have a data byte range from 0 - 127. I know that curves imparted to automation segments (using the automation tool set to "curve") as well as fades/crossfades offer much higher resolution than 127 steps, and these intermediate values are not displayed in any of Logic's event editors. But here's what I'm getting at: are you saying that inbetween whatever discreet values you see in these editors that there are "hidden" events representing intermediate values of higher resolution?

Message was edited by: iSchwartz

I'm not exactly sure this is what you're after, but you could insert a gain plug-in and then ride the automation with that.

James, I'm going to be curious to see if Bee Jay answers my post. He's under quite the different impression than I am about Logic's capabilities, and he may know someting I don't. But AFAIA, there is no way to ride volume in .1 dB increments.

Best,

-=iS=-

Lemme go grab a coffee and see what I can find out... 😉

James - your post confirms my findings.

With an LC, the fader steps are 0.1dB throughout most of it's range (apart from really close to the bottom, where it starts scaling down to -infinity, obviously).

When you move the LC fader and watch the onscreen Logic fader, they don't quite match up when the Logic fader doesn't have the resolution. So, while I can move from -1.0 to -1.1 on the LC, the Logic fader may still display -1.0, as it doesn't have the resolution to display finer increments.

Now, looking at the automation event list - when recording automation from the onscreen faders, Logic does indeed write only 7-bit values.

When recording automation from the LC however, the data looks superficially the same but you can enable the "parameters" filter (the same one you use to hide/reveal the sysex data values) and you see that the volume events are actually multi-byte values, looking a little like sysex data of about 6 or 7 bytes or so.

So Logic does record the automation different, if coming in from a 10-bit control surface, and thus the resolution is finer than just using the onscreen faders.

Hope that clears up any confusion.

James, I'm really glad you brought this question up, and BeeJay, I also appreciate that you posted your findings re the LC's MIDI output and the appearance of the data in the event list. This is really important stuff to know. Makes me want to go out and get an LC!

I just tried some experiments and I couldn't find a way to add any kind of controller event that was anything other than your garden variety 7-bit CC. Doesn't mean there isn't a way to do this, but I can't find one...

You're welcome - now go get that LC! 😉

Seriously, my Mackie Control Universal is one of my most favourite bits of gear, I love it to bits...

I think the controller thing is unlikely, it's some internal Logic thing, and not typical meta events or something. I will have a play to see if I can come up with anything, but like I say, events have these magic extra bytes that simply are not there when recording from the onscreen faders - maybe it's to do with the way the control surface layer works.

One thing that is worth a try - grab the demo of John Pitcairn's LC Xmu, and use a supported controller like a microKontrol (I have one of those as well).

The LC software acts as a virtual Logic Control, and converts the midi controller into a full Logic control. Of course, you won't get 10-bit fader resolution from your MIDI faders, but once in Logic it should be of the LC native format, which you can then edit accordingly.

Worth a try, anyway...

I thought about this too, but this means that your automation has to be done by hand using the mouse, and that wouldn't be practical (at least not for me).

And I wonder what would happen if someone posted, say, a nice long linear ramp of automation data (to be copy/pasted as JL suggested) so that we have access to all of those intermediate values, which we'd then have to flatline to set even a basic level on a track. What would happen to all that intermediate .1 dB level data? Wouldn't it simply disappear?

Not trying to knock your idea JL, but I'm just not sure it would be practical.