Airport Extreme & AT&T U-Verse

I guess the specific question I am trying to get at is, if you turn off the RG wifi radio, and have it handle the routing on all the ethernet ports, but use your Apple extreme to create the wireless network only, does that still mean you will be getting "Double NAT" conflicts?

As I already answered above........

There will be Double NAT with this setup. Whether that might be a conflict or not, I cannot say how your network and your equipment may or may not be affected by the Double NAT.

I want to be able to use "back to my mac" and other features on the Airport..

This is news, that you have not mentioned before.

If you follow the advice offered by eliezerw , I can guarantee to you that Back to My Mac will not work on your network. Or, you could call Apple Support to confirm that as well.

Apple provides several support documents that confirm very clearly that you do NOT want Double NAT on your network, and they try to provide ways to remove the Double NAT from the network. That is why I first commented that the advice from an Apple "tech" was very strange. For example......

Get help with multiple-NAT configurations for Back to My Mac - Apple Support

You have no option except to configure the AirPort to operate in Bridge Mode. You would not want it to "extend" a wireless network. You would want to configure the AirPort to "create" a wireless network.

At this point, we've repeated ourselves at least twice or more on every point, so it is time for eliezerw to come back online to defend his advice.

Just to add a fresh pair of eyes.. albeit I posted the first comments.. I tend to get less interested when the fights over double NAT having no impact start ..

Double NAT is a problem.. when routers open ports by upnp or NAT-PMP which is what BTMM uses, that port opening only works on the first router the client sees.. it cannot be passed between multiple routers. So the ports required for BTMM to work are opened on the apple router but not on the 2wire modem router.. hence BTMM doesn't work.

The way around this problem is to only have one NAT router.. this may mean replacing your current modem router with a pure modem.. I think all the cable providers in the US have lists of suitable cable modems that will work. If you are renting the 2wire, then return it to them so you own rather than rent.

Trying to manually port forward across double NAT.. is less than successful. I am told that pro equipment can handle this just fine.. but domestic grade equipment doesn't have the ability of pro gear.

Because this is complicated, people attempt DMZ ..

Read the background if you have never heard of DMZ. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMZ_%28computing%29

It is called different names.. just to add to the confusion.. in apple routers it is known as default host.

You put in the IP address of the device that is unsecured..

In this case you need to find it in the 2wire modem router and apply it to the wan IP of the AE. DMZ, Default Server, Default host are the kinds of names you will see.

If the 2wire implementation of DMZ is good it might work.. unfortunately no two routers handle it the same way. My experience with 2wire DMZ leads me to be doubtful. DMZ should direct all unconnected incoming port requests to a specific IP address.. which in your case would have to be the Airport router.. which would then pass them to the Airport LAN or to a computer in the LAN. Sometimes it works.. sometimes not..

It adds load to the network and slows things down.. so it is never without issues.

If your ISP has moved to IPv6 fully it should be possible to avoid NAT and do this in more sophisticated way.. but none of the ISP I use has this available yet so I have never had a chance to try it.

So for now.. without paying a load of money for a block of IPv4 addresses we are stuck with NAT.. and it can be very painful.

Avoiding two of these painful nasty semi fixes to the lack of addresses in IPv4 is strongly recommended.

Brian79 (because you have been most grateful, humble and courteous), Bob Timmons, and Others,

I'm not interested in getting into a ******* contest about NAT, Double-NAT, DMZ, IPv6, Port Mapping, or anything like that. My original posting of May 8 was made for the benefit of anyone who might find solace in the solution given me by the Applecare tech mentioned. It worked, and continues to work, for me, with my simple home network — nothing fancy (new AT&T U-verse Arris modem-router, at this point with its wireless signal still active, new Airport Extreme, a few Airport Express nodes around the property), considering the Netflix symptom that revealed the original problem, and the issues of network reliability and network speed generally. Thanks, Bob Timmons, for your kind allowances concerning what might or might not work on certain equipment with certain settings, or not; and thanks, also, for your note about my iPhone jumping to the AT&T router — as I've said, I'm about to deactivate that signal.

I don't play games or work in the Dark Net. I'm not a technician. I'm not a hacker. I don't look for problems, but I know my way around Macs from 30 years of experience, using and teaching, so I can tell when something is not working, call for expert help or troubleshoot from my personal toolkit of knowledge and reason, and recognize when the problem succumbs to my efforts to fix it. By the way, as far as I know, Back-To-My-Mac is not viable with OSX 10.7 and beyond. I have been using Team Viewer successfully for a few years, over distances of several hundred miles, with both my former DSL settings and my new U-verse settings — it is faster (less lag on shared screens) and cleaner than B-T-M-M ever was. If the settings (from the Applecare tech) I outlined on May 8 work for you, that's excellent news, and I celebrate with you. If not, you should seek another solution. No more defense; I have nothing else to offer on the subject.

eliezerw

My original posting of May 8 was made for the benefit of anyone who might find solace in the solution given me by the Applecare tech mentioned

A "solution" that Apple refuses to publish in any support document, likely because they are smart enough to know that they will be painting themselves into a corner if they put the advice in print .....when any number of their other published support documents consistently stress the need to avoid Double NAT.

It appears that Apple is trying to deal from the top and bottom of the deck, and that is unfair to users who are looking for honest, consistent advice.

Hello Bob,

After months and months of terrible service and endless visits from vendors I'm dropping Comcast and moving to Uverse on Wednesday.

I've asked them to install a gateway that has a modem function only (no router) so as to not interfere with my AE TC. Considering that the initial set up hasn't yet taken place is this a wise choice? I also use 3 new generation airport express to ensure consistent high speed coverage throughout the house.

Does this make sense?

I've asked them to install a gateway that has a modem function only (no router) so as to not interfere with my AE TC. Considering that the initial set up hasn't yet taken place is this a wise choice

The folks on the phone taking your order will tend to tell you what you want to hear.

As far as I know, the gateway that Uverse provides cannot be configured to operate as a simple modem only.......so it will be interesting to see exactly what kind of product that you will receive.

You might want to think about Plan B now in case a modem/router or gateway arrives......which I think is probably what you will get.

I also use 3 new generation airport express to ensure consistent high speed coverage throughout the house.

This will be OK as long as you plan to connect each Express back to the main modem/router using a permanent, wired Ethernet cable connection.

Assuming then that they do bring a modem/router gateway what options do i reasonably have?

In my current set up i have an ethernet connection between modem/router to the airport extreme and also from the airport extreme to an iMac. I have really limited knowledge of networking.

When the new product arrives, please start a new post with the make and model number of the modem/router. If we are familiar with the product that you have, we will answer at that time.

Include information about your entire network, and what operating system your computer is using at the present time.

Thank you. I have a 2011 21.5 Mac running 10.10.4 with 8GB of RAM. I use a 5th generation AirPort Extreme Time Capsule (2TB) connected via Ethernet to the gateway. I also have three 2nd generation Airport Express (all are the simultaneous dual band) connected wirelessly. My AirPort Utility version is 6.3.5

The gateway (as you suspected) that they plan to use is a 2Wire 5031.

I should also note that we have two Tivos, a 3rd generation Apple TV and an Xbox One connected to the network. In addition to a couple of laptops and up to 5 iphones at one time.

I use an Airport Extreme with Uverse Motorola NG589 Gateway/Modem, using it in IP Passthrough. The AE does all routing and is given the external IP address. In order to have access to the setup utility for Uverse gateway/modem, you need to NOT use the same network for your LAN that the Airport Extreme provides. I use 10.0.1.XXX as the LAN ip address of the Airport Extreme.

You need to find your MAC address for your Airport Extreme, do that by following these instructions:

AirPort base stations: How to view WAN and Wi-Fi MAC addresses - Apple Support

Go to the Uverse setup, 192.168.1.254, then click on Firewall, then click on the IP Passthrough subheading.

Then select Passthrough on the drop down Allocation Mode.

Then Select DHCPS-fixed for Passthrough Mode

Then do a manual entry of the MAC address of your Airport Extreme that you found above.

(Entering the MAC address avoids having to hook up your Airport Extreme so that it is the first DHCP request to the Uverse Gateway for it to be recognized as the passthrough IP).

Click Save.

Hook up the WAN port of the Airport Extreme to the gateway/router, I use port 1 on the Uverse gateway, but it doesn't matter, since it is the only port I use on the Uverse Gateway/router.

I then hook up any other switches or other devices to the ethernet ports supplied by the Airport Extreme and use the wifi provided by the Airport.

Since 192.168.1.254 is NOT in the subnet 10.0.1.XXX, it will look outside of the Airport on the WAN to get to your gateway control page, so you will still have access to the gateway.

Noe that since your Airport Extreme subnet is not the same as the 192.169.1.XXX subnet used for the uverse TV nodes, you won't be able to control the uverse boxes using your iphone via the Uverse app, since it isn't on the same network and they are expected to be so.

I hope this is complete, I believe this is how I did it, but it is how it looks at this time.

I was dealing with the exact same problem. If AT&T is aware of it, they're not sharing it with us. I had one tech come out, then two more followed to work on the pole. When that didn't work, they sent a third who stumbled upon a "solution" when he discovered that the problem was with my brand new current generation airport extreme and the airport express and airport extreme (wireless n generation) I was using to get wireless in my 1400 square foot apartment. Ridiculous, right? So I took out my $500 in apple equipment, went back to the att pace modem/router which now has a range extender. oh, and I upped my speed for another ten bucks so it would be fast enough by the time it got to my living room to stream movies. I pay for 18 down and I am lucky if I get 6 on the other side of my house. This guy said it was all because the signal had to go through my kitchen that had too much interference. Yet he was happy putting his router next to my AE AND my DECT 6.0 phone which he said would not interfere. So now I am only using their crap hardware, my apple stuff is in mothballs and our signal still ***** and goes off and on at will. I had time warner which I guess I might go back to,because those are my only two choices because I live in a hick town in the middle of nowhere called los angeles calfornia. I had time warner before and swore never again because it is terrible but now I am weighing which was worse? Anybody wanna start a class action about this, I'm in. Oh, btw, I never fail to fall for this, I rum speed test and don't realize I have been knocked offline and I get 30s or 40s, I rejoice that a miracle has happened until I realize I'm on my phone's LTE 😟

Migrating from 3 year old DSL router which had the following behind it (Mac Time Capsule, Airport Extreme, Belkin N Wireless) to new Uverse Motorola NG589 Gateway/Modem. The edge routers (Time Capsule, AE, belkin) were all setup in bridge mode with double NAT. There is plenty of instructions on how to set this up. I'm posting this to let owners know what to change on the new Motorola NG589 to get your network up and running.

I simply logged in to router 192.168.1.254

Click Firewall

Change Allocation Mode to Passthrough

Change Passthrough Mode to DHCPS-dynamic

Reboot (takes 2 minutes)

After a reboot of Uverse Motorola, then reboot AE and any other routers behind the NG589 (which are all connected via RJ45 ports) wait for about 2 more minutes. I was able to connect to internet with Apple TV, iPods, iPhones, and computers (because they all connect to AE, AE Guest, Time Capsule, or Belkin).

And unlike other posts, I did not disable the Packet Filter, I did not put in a MAC addr, and the NG589 wireless is still working.

I hope this helps someone else.

Hello Bob,

I am in a similar situation. I have U-Verse Gigapower internet in Dallas, TX. Unfortunately, my Arris Residential Gateway is located in the rear of my house, and I have trouble getting consistent service in the front of my house. The AT&T technician suggested that I look into getting an Airport Extreme/Express. If I were to do that, what is the best way to set it up? I'd love for the AE to handle all wifi activities. Would this be possible? Please feel free to give as much detail as necessary.

Thanks!

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