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Joe M21 Author

Level 1

85 points

problem with create archive from mini-DV tape

I have a fairly large collection of homemade mini-DV tapes. They are getting a bit old and I would like to back them up to my computer as well as have easy access to the footage with FCP.

The tapes were made on a Sony TRV8 camcorder (either directly or as backups of older VHS tapes). I am using the same camcorder for playback.

The camera shows up as expected in FCP. My goal is to "Create Archive" on each tape. Here is where I ran into some problems.

My first tape ran about halfway through - around the 30 min mark and gave me a "end of tape" message. The footage was captured properly, but there is still half the tape to go. I tried a second time and only reached the 5 minute mark when the archiving ended with an "end of tape" message. I am on my third try as I type this and have made it to the 15 minute mark.

I thought to possibly create multiple archives, picking up where I left off. However, whenever I select "create archive" FCP insists on rewinding the tape to the start. This behavior differs from the Apple KB article which states archiving will start from the current position of the tape.

Adding to the problem is an issue of jittering playback.

When I playback using the camera controls of the "play" button in the import window, things are fine. When "Create Archive" handles the playback on its own, the pictures jumps as if it is on a trampoline. Sometimes I am able to hit "stop" and then "play" to get a normal playback - sometimes hitting stop stops the archive with an "end of tape" message.

Any ideas on what is going wrong or how to work around it? I have over 100 tapes to archive. If each tape requires numerous attempts to archive, this will never get done. I thought the archive process was supposed to import the entire tape?

Mac Pro, OS X Yosemite (10.10.1), 20GB Ram

Posted on Dec 8, 2014 11:16 AM

37 replies

Alchroma

Level 7

23,857 points

Dec 12, 2014 7:52 PM in response to Joe M21

Joe M21 wrote:

That's good news. Thanks for the info. Looks like I have enough options to work around any borderline tapes. Now if there was only a way to do this all quicker than "realtime." Making backup tape copies, bringing clips into the computer from tape, burning those clips to m-disc... this is going to take a while.

Yup, keep the coffee coming. 🙂

Another option, if you want to save a lot of time:

Use a hard drive recorder that has has DV input.

Some machines can also make cuts only edits, add chapter markers and basic titles on the drive then output to disc.

Certainly save heaps of time if you just want backups of tape.

Mine is Panasonic BMR-BW850. Pioneer make similar that I know of.

Also check out a thing called DV Direct from Sony. I use a VRD-MC6 if required.

Russ H

Level 7

22,432 points

Dec 13, 2014 5:23 AM in response to Joe M21

Joe M21 wrote:

this is going to take a while.

The good news is you can multitask online or off line while capturing for extended (and predicable) interludes. I've done my share of tape backups projects. Just keep reminding yourself it's a labor of love.

Russ

Joe M21 Author

Level 1

85 points

Dec 13, 2014 9:44 AM in response to Russ H

Noticed some interesting things when importing additional tapes.

I am avoiding "Create Archive" in FCP X, because at least some of the tapes have timecode breaks.

The two methods I have tried are QT 7 "New Movie Recording" and FCP X "Import." Both capture in the native tape format, producing what should be identical files.

QT does not read time code, so dates are set to "today" - creation date of the file.

FCP X will read the timecode, so clip date is set to date the video was created.

Of course, FCP X lets you change the date of the clip, so the "limitation" of QT isn't a big deal.

What is a problem is when the software hits a bad spot on the tape.

In both software, the tape continues to run and the video appears in the "capture" window. However, neither will capture any video past the "problem" spot.

Example - there was something that caused an import issue about 30-45 seconds into a tape (exact spot differed each time).

With FCP X: Import continued as normal - video played in window and import counter keeps running. It appears to import, but actually only captures the first 30-45 seconds (up to the problem spot). You have no idea it stopped capturing until you view the imported clip and find out on the first xx seconds are there.

With QT 7: Video continues to play, but "counter" in the window (which shows file size and time recorded) stops. This gives a visual indication that actual capture has stopped. As above, captured file only has 30-45 seconds of footage (up to problem spot).

In some instances, QT 7 actually stops at the problem spot with a dialog, while FCP X keeps going, implying a capture.

Dec 13, 2014 10:00 AM in response to Joe M21

Tom mentioned iMovie.Did you get round to trying it?

Might be worth a try. After all you seem to have tried everything else.

It might be a bit more forgiving?

Joe M21 Author

Level 1

85 points

Dec 13, 2014 10:39 AM in response to thesurreyfriends

Haven't tried iMovie yet. Might give that a shot on the next tape just to see what happens.

QT 7 is actually working well for me at this point. My mini-DVs have many backups of older VHS and s-VHS recording I made before going to digital tape. Aside from tape age, I suspect some of my broken time code problems are due to the way I transferred the old tapes onto mini-DV. It seems at least a few of my mini-DV were recorded in LP mode, adding to the problem.

Right now, QT 7 is doing a good job. I am copying each tape, one at a time. As I hit a new date/event on the source tape, I start a new clip. Each clip is named with the original recording date. This should help keep things organized.

Next, I burn each "tape" collection to a Blu-ray M-disc. In most cases I can fit the entire set of clips from one tape onto the 25GB disc (actual space is just over 23GB). This should give me a disc collection which matches my tape collection.

I have a mini-DV player on order and it should arrive next week. My secondary project is to use that to make new backup copies of each tape. This should fix any timecode issues while also giving me a copy on a new tape.

Finally, I will probably use FCP X to create an archive for each tape. Looks like I might be able to fit it all on a <4GB hard drive.

At some point in this process I will also make some sort of highlight reel of everything.

Even allowing for the age of the tapes, it is amazing what we considered "good" consumer equipment quality not that many years ago. My original VHS camcorder was a monstrosity and shot video that is horrible by today's standards. My iPhone 6 plus cost less, takes considerably better quality video, fits in my pocket, has battery life an order of magnitude better... and makes phone calls too. The 80s seem like the dark ages.

Joe M21 Author

Level 1

85 points

Dec 14, 2014 4:10 PM in response to Joe M21

quick follow-up...

I tried iMovie. Same problems as FCP X:

- each tape it captures 30-40 seconds. After that it continues to act like it is capturing, but does not. Only first 30-40 seconds is captured.

- strange "strobe" effect in capture window. Video "blinks" every 1-2 seconds (sound and picture). Captured clip is fine and does not have these breaks.

QT 7 does not exhibit either problem. It continues to record until I ask it to stop. It also plays back the footage smooth in its capture window.

Another side benefit of QT 7 - you can adjust the volume in the capture window, even turn it all the way down. iMovie/FCP play audio at full system volume.

On the downside of it all - seem like I did at least most of these backups in "LP" mode. Can't remember why, but I do recall it seemed a good idea at the time.

Dec 14, 2014 8:23 PM in response to Joe M21

I've also had the same frustrations trying to copy all my digital 8 tapes to disk. I ended up settling on QT 7 and creating separate clips for separate parts of the tape. A bit more tediuos than create archive because you have to baby sit the process.

With create archive you can archive part of a tape. Set the tape where you want to start then click "create archive"; as soon as the tape starts to rewind, press the play button on your camcorder and it will begin from there.

problem with create archive from mini-DV tape