GPS data not available to apps after iOS 8.3 update

The Garmin GLO has a firmware update v2.70 that I believe corrects the issue even though it's not mentioned in the changelog linked below.

http://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=5811

It IS however mentioned in the Garmin blog:

http://garmin.blogs.com/my_weblog/2015/04/garmin-glo-connectivity-with-select-io s-devices.html#.VWhYW2ff-RN

It has become pretty obvious you have little background in computing and software development.

Apple had no idea when they released the iPad that the Personal Area Network (PAN) protocol in Bluetooth could be used for GPS and it was not their intent in implementing it. 3rd party vendors discovered it and used it to sell a device that would use this workaround to offer a lower priced device to compete with single unit models. But Apple was in no way involved or a partner to this. This has happened since hobby computers have been around but what one has to wary of the builder of the principal device can make a change that will obsolete the 3rd party device. I had a whole closet full of peripherals that this happened to when I was working using Xenix, Linux and Windows machines. That is no weak it is a fact of life.

As just pointed out here again, and they are just one model, Garmin very quickly did a firmware update and their system works. Why couldn't Dual or Bad Elf do that? The change that Apple made within the constraints of PAN may have been very short and designed to make something else work. It also may have involved previous code that through a mistake did not conform to BT standards and they corrected it. There is also software that a slight tweak "fixed" the issue until the release of 8.4.

It is not a quality control issue on Apple's part just like it wouldn't be for Windows, Linux, Android, etc. There is no way any of these companies can check the impact of every possible combination of Bluetooth device out there every time they make a change. So they do beta testing. And in this instance out of the 1 million people that signed up for the public beta not one of them was a pilot using a Dual or Bad Elf product/software. Otherwise it would have been reported.

Again, while Apple made the change they do not have the ability to test every device. This is not bad quality control it is reality. Been this way for a long time. So what can 3rd party companies do? Make sure they are part of the developer program and have their personnel test any changes to the iOS (or new equipment) that are released. This sounds to me like these two vendors thought their software developers were doing this and vice versa.

Best way to avoid this? Pay the premium price for a single vendor solution and hope they have a close working relationship with their software vendor.

Does Garmin GLO work well with ForeFlight? If so, I may replace my Bad Elf with GLO instead of waiting for Apple to fix IOS

IM not sure how to take this, but Bad Elf states in their update article on this issue ...., "Unfortunately, in this case there is little we can do from our side to resolve the issue." Ouch! That's quite a statement!!!!

http://bad-elf.com/blogs/bad-elf/26456196-still-in-holding-pattern-on-ios-8-3-gp s-bug

And another comment from Bad Elf staff....

BRETT @ BAD ELF

Nobody knows for certain if this iOS bug was in the 8.3 betas, and unfortunately we can’t go back now to check that (we’ve tried). But, let’s assume it was there, in which case it slipped thru the cracks and was not caught by anyone — us/Garmin/Dual/ForeFlight/Jeppesen/Apple. We apologize for our part in this debacle.

We’ve already reviewed our internal testing process and are making changes to do a better job of covering the large test matrix of (iOS device models X iOS versions X Bad Elf device models X Bad Elf firmware X Bad Elf app X 3rd party apps). We’ll do a blog post with debrief of these findings/changes once this is all resolved in the next few weeks.

Unfortunately, there will always be the potential for breaking changes since Apple does not typically do beta releases for point releases (ie: 8.2.x) — which is why everyone recommends NOT upgrading to any new iOS release for the first week it’s available, unless you can risk breaking changes. And many users such as commercial/military pilots are prohibited from doing updates until approved by their management or chief pilots. It’s the nature of the beast.

You can read my comment below re: Garmin “fixing” the issue (they didn’t), and what we’re doing to work around this Apple bug via a firmware update for the Bad Elf GPS Pro in the meantime.

I’ll drop you a note directly to see if there’s anything we can do to help. As always, our support team is standing by, just drop a note to support@bad-elf.com.

Best regards,
-Brett

thia comment can be viewed on the Bad Elf article below The above cited statement is in the comment section from this article The comment is written by the author of the main article

http://bad-elf.com/blogs/bad-elf/18013536-alert-compatibility-issue-with-apple-i os-8-3-and-external-gps-receivers

MMore comments from Bad Elf staff on the issue.....

.

Pierre/Dan/Aerosteve — yes, the 2.70 GLO firmware brings their unit up to the same level as our GPS Pro+ and GPS for Lightning dongle. Now, these 3 units are unaffected by the iOS 8.3 bug when used with newer Lightning-based iOS devices. However, NONE of them work with 30-pin iOS devices running iOS 8.3. This was not a new/recent GLO firmware release from Garmin — it was released on Feb 25, 2015.

But, it’s a good question: can we do a firmware upgrade for our 30-pin dongle (-1000) and Bad Elf GPS Pro (-2200) to at least enable them to work with Lightning-based iOS devices running iOS 8.3?

1. For the 30-pin dongle, the answer is simple: NO, because 30-pin accessories cannot use the newer (working) accessory protocol. Only Apple can fix the issue with the older protocol and restore functionality to 30-pin devices/accessories.

2. For the GPS Pro (-2200), we CAN do a firmware update, but we have to complete the MFi product review process for this new configuration. This takes 4-5 weeks minimum and multiple 3rd parties are involved. We’ve already started the process, but are hopeful Apple will release a fix before this new firmware update is ready.

We are very frustrated with this issue, and are moving forward on several paths to work around it. I hope to have some positive updates later this week.

Source...

http://bad-elf.com/blogs/bad-elf/18013536-alert-compatibility-issue-with-apple-i os-8-3-and-external-gps-receivers

the above comments are from bad elf staff at the link provided, and are not my own.

HI Finchester 122,

To save you digging out my earlier post, I had exactly the same issue with my GLO which I was using with Skydemon on my iPad Mini. However, updating to software version 2.7 fixed it, even though Garmin told me that it wouldn't. HOWEVER, when I first connected my GLO to my PC it was not recognised and it was only through a kind sole on this forum that I found that the solution was to buy a VERY SHORT lead. About 6 inches long and cost around £3 from Amazon. Don't ask me why this fixed the problem, but it did. My PC immediately recognised my GLO and I was able to download the software and update it from the Garmin website. So two problems in one, but there is an answer. I should perhaps point out, however, that I have a relatively new iPad Mini and I am not sure that this software fix works with older iOS devices. Good Luck.

Aerosteve

Thank you all so much, I am so impressed how helpful you have all been very impressed. I think its up and running a well test it properly tomorrow on my drive in to the airfield.

Thank you all so much.

Paul

deggie,

For all of the very interesting commentary in your post - little of which I would dispute - there are for me some very clear, unequivocal and uncontested facts of this matter:

1. My DUAL XGPS160 worked brilliantly (via Bluetooth) with my (lightning connector) iPad Mini Retina Display while running iOS 8.2

2. Apple released iOS 8.3 and my DUAL no longer worked with my iPad. Nothing in the DUAL had changed just iOS

3. Apple eventually pleaded guilty to a bug in 8.3 and set about fixing it.

3. Apple has produced a Beta 3 of 8.4 and it is reported that external GPS functionality has been restored.

4. Apple will soon release 8.4 and my Dual will once again work perfectly with my iPad Mini.

You do not have to be a 30 year experienced, senior software engineer to comprehend these simple facts.

"As just pointed out here again, and they are just one model, Garmin very quickly did a firmware update and their system works."

Garmin released that firmware update on 15 February *not* in response to the bug in 8.3

No firmware update is possible for GPS devices connected to 30 pin iDevices that could overcome the bug in 8.3.

Developing a firmware update to overcome a bug in 8.3 that will be fixed in 8.4 doesn't make a lot of economic sense.

The time taken to develop, test and release a firmware update compared with the time taken to roll-back to 8.2 make the firmware update suggestion looked silly.

"It is not a quality control issue on Apple's part just like it wouldn't be for Windows, Linux, Android, etc"

I don't recall anybody accusing Windows of exemplary QC. As an industry, IT is renowned for a level of QC that would sink most professions overnight. No need for me to rehash all the jokes about "If Microsoft made automobiles . . . "

Just because your competitors have poor quality control doesn't make it OK for Apple to have poor QC.

"This is not bad quality control it is reality."

It may be the reality for Apple (and to be fair its competitors) but if manufacturers in many other areas of endeavour accepted that level of ineptness they'd would not last long in business. Plenty of IT industry players remain in business because they have good lawyers who write brilliantly powerful "no liability" clauses. If the industry put as much effort into getting it right as to forever adding bells and whistles, we would all be better off.

"So what can 3rd party companies do? Make sure they are part of the developer program and have their personnel test any changes to the iOS (or new equipment) that are released."

Could not agree more. As long as they survive this debacle, I'm pretty sure they have learned the big lesson:

mostly . . . .

p.s. your having racked up 49,960 points indicates that you must be very experienced on this site. Odd then, don't you agree, that you attempt to help somebody you don't know anything about by starting your reply with: "It has become pretty obvious you have little background in computing and software development." I doubt that was meant to be a compliment so I'll just ignore that swipe.

SO me too. I have a Garmin #3263a and from 8.3 update didn't work!!!

It was not meant to be a swipe it was a statement of fact. I can assume then you have never done any programming?

1. Yes, your Dual worked with 8.2

2. Yes, your Dual no longer worked in 8.3

3. Apple didn't plead guilty to anything, they responded to users who said it didn't work anymore and said we will look into it. Odd that they didn't first hear this from Dual or Bad Elf

4. (You have 3 twice) Apple mentioned the change in beta release 2, not 3.

5.Yes, probably on the 8th of June Apple will release 8.4 and hopefully it will correct your issue as well as the recent text problem.

My only problem with what you are arguing is you seem to think there is some kind of switch a programmer set wrong, like flaps for landing, her coprogrammer didn't catch it and a grievous error was made that singled you out. It doesn't work that way in software.

The way it is supposed to work is that a unit of programmers was tasked to make changes in iOS to Bluetooth probably for the Watch but it could also have been to work on AirDrop issues. This involves several APIs and lots of line of code. This group set up their task at the Alpha level and probably worked with people in the iOS and Watch sections to test the new code. Once they have a semi-stable build of the iOS they send it to developers. What is supposed to happen at that point is the developer tests each build and if they find a problem, say like their software and the Dual doesn't work anymore, they login and submit a problem report. This report should have as much detail as possible and should include which build it happened with, whether it happened with a previous build, what all was running at the time, any workarounds tried, etc. This goes to the programming group responsible for this area and they then look at the changes that were made and try to find out what change specifically could have caused the issue and change the code involved. If it involves more than one unit then they will coordinate with other units. They will then either contact the person who submitted the bug report for more information or they will make changes in the next build. When that build is released the person who submitted the bug will get an email saying the problem has been addressed and ask the person to test the build and either confirm it, say it still doesn't work, say it works but there are still some issues to be resolved, etc.

That is the way it is supposed to work. There is not way that ANY company, not Apple, not Google, not Red Hat, not IBM, could possibly test all of the software/hardware that runs on their OS. The only way to avoid your issue is to have the 3rd party developers and hardware makers participate which they are asked to do. It is patently obvious from the letter posted here from the official at Bad Elf that this did not occur. Props to them for saying they are going to take steps internally saying they are going to try to make sure this does not happen in the future. I still think that their hardware engineers thought the software development people were doing this and vice versa. So no one did it.

What amazes me is how three MAJOR companies in the aviation/GPS industry ALL DROPPED the ball at the same time. How in the world did Dual, Garmin, and Bad Elf ALL manage to drop the ball at the EXACT SAME TIME.

Something doesnt add up.

They could all contract with the same software/firmware developer and they all believed they were actively testing the new iOS version.

Weird indeed and very costly for future business. I guess we all learned something from this fiasco.

It has not stopped me, personally, navigating by iPad because I have two, one with and one without Cell/GPS. I also have an iPhone that runs my Nav App even if the screen size is sub-optimal it will get you to where you need to go, especially home! I Also carry a paper version of the plan with headings and distances, ETI, etc. I have on more than one occasion had to fall back on that and was very glad I had it to fall back on. And if it all goes really bad, there is always the EPIRB and a SPOT tracker on board. Belts, braces and more. The religion of aviation safety - redundant backup.

deggie, we are a lot closer in our thinking than some observers might guess. I would like to thank you for significantly expanding our understanding of the processes at Apple. I readily accept that the best laid plans of mice, men and Apple can go awry. The test is how you recover from these flums. The only message I'd leave with Apple is that they need to be more forthcoming if something has gone wrong and leave an avenue for a quick fix. Two months without my bluetooth navigator is annoying only because I see it was unnecessary. If I had discovered the problem existed before I loaded 8.3 then I would still be on 8.2 and wondering what all the fuss is about. Or I could, with Apple's grace have been allowed the retrograde roll back. In the circumstances regrettably, neither were available.

Although I won't be rushing to load new versions in future I am sorely tempted to make an exception with 8.4 if only for my iPad Mini that has no cell/gps.

You could wait 24 hours and then check the websites for the devices to see if they are working.