GPS data not available to apps after iOS 8.3 update

Ziatron wrote:

All this pain could be avoided if Apple would simply allow users to (easily) go back to a previous version of iOS. This happens all the time in the Macintosh world.

Macintosh no longer exists. What happens all the time in the Apple world?

Pete

I was just googling around looking for what devices have Bluetooth GPS support for my WiFi iPad and came across this thread.

Now, I am not pilot - but I have been in software development for 20+ years. Here is what I find curious after reading through this entire thread:

1. How the **** did anyone fly airplanes before Apple released the iPad in 2010? Aviation some how made it 100 years without iPads. Maybe we have become too dependent on technology?

2. I encourage all of you to start your own software/hardware company, and produce devices used by billions of people in an infinite number of possible ways - and never have a single glitch or issue arise. Seriously: Apple has sold something like 300 million iPads and approaching a billion iPhones. Every single one of those devices is used in a unique way with unique situations and combinations of hardware and software.

3. I agree it is strange that not one single one of the companies who specialize in specifically GPS devices didn't catch this bug until it was way too late. I mean it is one thing for Apple not to test with every possible GPS device - but it is quite another for the makers of a specific device to not test with iOS updates. When your entire company makes about 3 specific devices - I would think it would be pretty important to test every software update pretty thoroughly.

4. I don't really have any skin in the game here. I just want to use my iPad with river or bay charts when I go into unfamiliar places. No biggie, I can manage without it until 8.4 comes out. But some of the people in this thread have been incredibly vocal about how they feel Apple has personally wronged them in some way. That is just not the case. This stuff isn't easy folks. We do our best in the industry to prevent things like this, but sometimes they happen. This is why no company or group that relies on software ever lets people install updates without first certifying the new version. Its why at work we are often three or four releases behind in software - because it takes us time to certify all of the things we rely on...

yyour comment, john, sheds light on how this *** happened. And puts the blame on the customers including yourself. Do you think this helps solve the problem? My suggestion to Apple to make IOS8.2 available at no cost to anyone WOULD HELP EVERYBODY

I'm not sure how he is blaming the customer, unless you are saying they should have delayed upgrading which is always a good idea when using vertical software. My take is he blamed the 3rd party vendors that make the hardware/software which I would agree with.

Apple has never supported rolling back the OS and never will.

How did anyone cook for thousands of years without a range or microwave? How did people have careers before cars?

We don't HAVE to have it, but it helps with situational awareness in the cockpit and helps get rid of paper charts. It makes an outdated 1960's cockpit become a n almost modern day glass cockpit with just an iPad and GPS. It's revolutionary what's at our finger tips now.

So no, we don't have to have it, but it helps keep the workload down. It helps us fly the airplane and worry less about navigation and turning knobs and calculating times. Considering someday in the near future, the old ways of navigation will gone, this will be even larger in scope as time goes on.

1. How the **** did anyone fly airplanes before Apple released the iPad in 2010? Aviation some how made it 100 years without iPads. Maybe we have become too dependent on technology?

How the **** did anyone travel before Henry Ford produced automobiles starting in 1921? We some how made it eons without automobiles. Maybe we have become too dependent on automobiles and mass transportation?

2. I encourage all of you to start your own software/hardware company, and produce devices used by billions of people in an infinite number of possible ways - and never have a single glitch or issue arise. Seriously: Apple has sold something like 300 million iPads and approaching a billion iPhones. Every single one of those devices is used in a unique way with unique situations and combinations of hardware and software.

"Glitches" are always acceptable and understood to be a part of the accepted risks of using an iPad or any electronic device and associated software. The bottom line is that we all understand and accept that "glitches" may occur. And when this problem first appeared I'm sure everyone was quite understanding - after all, s**t happens, especially when it comes to software.

But what has really aggravated this user community, and what makes that anger so apparent on this thread, is Apple's hubris in taking its time to address the problem. This is not some gamer's remote being rendered useless by this bluetooth glitch, this is people's livelihood and safety being impacted by this glitch. I would even go so far as to say any one of us would probably be fine living with this "glitch", if Apple wouldn't be so controlling of its user environment and would allow a roll back to 8.2. But we are beholden to Apple's whim and there is absolutely nothing whatsoever we can do about it with regards to this "glitch". Apple's official policy regarding the fix and not allowing us to roll back to 8.2 has effectively rendered my iPad useless for the purpose for which I originally purchased it for.

3. I agree it is strange that not one single one of the companies who specialize in specifically GPS devices didn't catch this bug until it was way too late. I mean it is one thing for Apple not to test with every possible GPS device - but it is quite another for the makers of a specific device to not test with iOS updates. When your entire company makes about 3 specific devices - I would think it would be pretty important to test every software update pretty thoroughly.

How do you know that this issue wasn't caught by some companies and that Apple ignored them and released 8.3 anyway? How do you know the last beta version of 8.3 was glitch free but that the final public release of 8.3 didn't incorporate a last-minute change by Apple creating this glitch?

4. I don't really have any skin in the game here.

If you don't have any skin in the game then you probably should look at another, more relevant thread.

I just want to use my iPad with river or bay charts when I go into unfamiliar places.

And there's the reason why you don't and can't empathize with this user community. Floating on a river or bay, drifting with the tides and currents, is quite different than flying an aircraft at 140 MPH or more in congested airspace over densely populated areas.

No biggie, I can manage without it until 8.4 comes out.

Good for you.

But some of the people in this thread have been incredibly vocal about how they feel Apple has personally wronged them in some way. That is just not the case.

I would be willing to bet that not just "some of the people in this thread", but every single one of them, myself included, feels that Apple has in fact wronged them.

This stuff isn't easy folks. We do our best in the industry to prevent things like this, but sometimes they happen.

And every one of us, I'm sure, understands that. As I said before, the issue is not that the glitch occurred, but that Apple is taking its time to address it and, at the same time, has eliminated our ability to fix it ourselves via a roll-back to 8.2. This issue is not about the glitch occurring. It is about Apple's glaring poor customer service regarding this issue. Plain and simple.

This is why no company or group that relies on software ever lets people install updates without first certifying the new version. Its why at work we are often three or four releases behind in software - because it takes us time to certify all of the things we rely on...

And that, my friend, is the first accurate statement you've made, because this is where we, as a user community, are at fault. None of us should have ever upgraded to 8.3 without waiting to obtain feedback from the GPS manufacturers as well as the EFB software companies to ensure all was well before upgrading. Personally, I will never again update my iPad for a good 30 days or more after a new release in order to ensure all bugs, if any, related to my EFB and GPS device are published.

In the final analysis, this issue really is a result of Apple's own success - we've all become so used to "it just works" that we ASSUMED any update would in fact "just work".

John Reinhold wrote: This is why no company or group that relies on software ever lets people install updates without first certifying the new version. Its why at work we are often three or four releases behind in software - because it takes us time to certify all of the things we rely on...

This is all fine and dandy in the tech industry. But realize that the majority of users are simply Joe and Jean Shmoe. When Apple auto-pushes (yes, Apple continues to do this) an update to their device, they simply push that "Update" button, thinking it's the best thing since sliced bread and newer is always better. This is what Apple wants...everybody to be on the same iOS version, regardless of if there are issues with it or not. If there are issues, the end-user suffers until Apple corrects it...which is sometimes not for a VERY long time.

I personally ran iOS 6 for a *very* long time after iOS 7 was released before finally updating. I NEVER update immediately, simply because I don't want to break something that's already working fine with no issues, just to have the "newest" iOS versiobn. This is normal to me and the line of work with the industry I'm in. But like I mentioned above, Apple wants as many users as possible to make the switch as soon as possible. Maybe in time, people will figure out that the newest thing is not always better and they need to do some research before jumping into the pool....it may look clean and refreshing but there are always bugs and stuff to be aware of.

What happens all the time in the Apple world?

Sometimes a new Mac OS will break software, and it becomes necessary to revert to a previous version of the Mac OS.

Many had to do this in order to continue using iMovie HD 06 and other programs.

Strangely, I have never understood why everyone in the Mac community is perfectly happy with using previous versions of the Mac OS. In fact, on at least one occasion Apple recommended the procedure to solve a given problem.

However, in the past, I have given procedures, (not involving jailbreaking) and I'm pounced upon. I never understood why it's okay to go back in Mac, but not with iOS. 😕

We should not take the Apple policy towards its customers as a God given law.

Really: APPLE, STEVE IN HEAVEN, MAKE DOWNGRADING POSSIBLE!! There is really no reason for this as you prevent older Macs and iPhones from upgrading to more recent OS. So older OS doesn't seem to be a problem. My iPhone2 cannot even dowload third party Apps. But it works just fine!!!! And my iPhones 3S on IOS6and 4 on IOS7 even with Foreflight and any external GPS- receiver. (The built in GPS is not sensitive enough in the plane, so I need an external third party GPS.

<Link Edited By Host>

Uh yeah. No hole dug here. You statement was wrong. The idea this hardware can't take the old OS's that it shipped with makes no sense. So, you're saying my iPad shipped with 6.1, but it's too new to handle going back to that? That's what you've said.

And sorry I don't have my iOS dates down to the day of their release. Life got in the way of worthless things like that.

Ummm...can you actually read?

The hardware in those old phones is too old to run newer iOSs. Simple.

Pete

You replied

Uh yeah. No hole dug here. You statement was wrong. The idea this hardware can't take the old OS's that it shipped with makes no sense. So, you're saying my iPad shipped with 6.1, but it's too new to handle going back to that? That's what you've said.

😕

Best you stay away from adult threads

Cheers

Pete

Ouch. Man, not sure I'll recover from that one.

I do apologize for misreading. For 2 weeks we've been talking about rolling back to earlier OS's. When reading on a phone it happens.

That being said, your "adult" comment is comical. I'm sure kids on gaming forums and youtube are intimidated by that manly talk. Good luck with that champ.

Please, petermac87, lose that attitude. Or use it somewhere else.

I'm not very keen on arguing with you, but what do you mean with "no research"? Please specify. If you don't know anything about my "research" – don't assume, and don't use that attitude. Ask me instead.

I have reported all my bugs to Apple. And the thing is that nothing ever happens about any of them. App versions come and go, the bugs are obviously here to stay. I started out as a very loyal user in 1995, but for the last years, the bugs have started showing for real, and I'm not really interested in just overseeing Apple flaws anymore. If Apple monitored this forum, they would be picking up lots of valuable user experience. But they don't.

With an approach like that PeterMac, you could get a job with Apple Customer relations - you'd blend right in.

I've been leaving this discussion alone for a while because it is going nowhere . . . slowly.

There is nothing new in the last month or so. Facts are still the same now as they were then. iOS 8.3 is still broken and it seems will never be fixed, just replaced with 8.4 with its own special set of bugs but, hopefully, not ones that affect me.

It is now over *10 weeks* since Apple launched the defective iOS 8.3 on an unsuspecting customer base that believed Apple just got things right. In that 10 weeks, my iPad Mini and Dual XGPS160 have sat idle on a shelf and remain there to this day. If anyone associated with Apple think that is fair enough then they are from a planet that would welcome home Scientologists.

I understand now that Apple is the most successful business on the this planet and has a gob-smacking market cap that is around $750 billion. As I see it, it achieved this sort of success by producing beautifully engineered products that just work. The intuitive nature of the iPad has made IT more accessible to many who probably thought themselves, proudly, as Technophobes - people like my wife. There is no doubt the iPad and iPhone have brought a lot of people into the Apple world, including people like me, who had previously avoided it since Apple left the Apple II+ behind and went all proprietary. I certainly swallowed the hype that Apple was not like Microsoft and actually had bullet proof OS. Clearly, I should have been more circumspect and certainly will be in future. What is happening at Apple? Are they losing the plot? Are they taking their customers for granted like Nokia did? A very slippery slope.

The rule that Apple does not allow OS rollbacks under any circumstances is plain pig-headed and stupid. Yes, it is quite undesirable to have people hanging back in old versions but, if the new version does not work then you need to allow people to step back to a version that does. Yes, when 8.4 comes out, in the fullness of time, it will probably mean I can dust off my iPad Mini and Dual XGPS160 but every time I look at my iPad I'll be reminded that Apple thinks it is OK to eff its customers around for >10 weeks while they dilly dally about with more bells and whistles for the marketing people to bang on about. Surely, a functioning OS is more important that adding more OS functionality?

Beautifully written! It captures the essence of this fiasco brilliantly. Thank you.

I fear Apple's sheer size will ultimately be their downfall. It has happened to every single company out there that grew to dominate its competitors. Hubris is the first sign that they are standing on the precipice of a looming decline. And the other sign is the CEO taking their eye off the ball and trying to paint the company as a world do-gooder. Note Mr. Cooke's comments over the past few years on social issues. That said, Mr. Jobs would never have allowed something like this to occur. There are tons of stories about how he was a tyrant, but that tyranny led to incredible products, shareholders be ****** - and they never were because those products ultimately paid huge benefits for the shareholders. Mr. Cooke, on the other hand, is no Steve Jobs. And he never will be. And Apple will never be the same, either. Just look at this issue. Does anyone really believe this would have occurred under Steve Jobs?