GPS data not available to apps after iOS 8.3 update

Actually, not all BT GPS are affected. For example, my Garmin GLO, with firmware v2.7, works as it should running iOS8.3 on an iPad 4th Generation. Bad Elf users also claim some models of that brand work, too. Thst said, my GLO did't work on 8.3 until I upgraded the firmware. Had I been more timely, the Garmin update was available back in Feburary, i would not have known there were isdues with 8.3. Hope yours get fixed soon.

This could all be fixed if the morons at Apple wouldn't block 8.2 from being rolled back. At least when Microsoft screws up IE, you can roll back. This is unacceptable. The lack of a fix is unacceptable. I'll be switching off my iPad and flying with something else. Not another dime will be given to them.

iOS and IE are completely different things. Apple has never made it possible to downgrade iOS. Your firmware is updated at the same time.

Pete

Not being able to roll back is part of Apples security design for iOS, it wasn't done by "morons", it was done by very intelligent people working hard to protect your data. As far as Microsoft we'll let there security record speak for itself.

If you read through this entire thread you would know there is an unsupported method, not recommended by Apple or Bad Elf, to roll back to 8.2 so long as an Apple signed version is available on their website. The last I heard it is still signed and you can use Google to find out how to do it. Or you can sign up for the Public Beta and use 8.4 Beta 2. Your choice.

I seriously doubt Apple will notice you are gone and it might be a good idea to go with a GPS solution that is just from one vendor.

petermac87 wrote:

Apple has never made it possible to downgrade iOS. Your firmware is updated at the same time.

Pete

This isn't true. Apple has so far allowed you to downgrade ios for about a week after they post a new ios version. Remember 8.0.1? Apple pull this release and suggest use downgrade to 8.0.

http://www.theverge.com/2014/9/24/6839235/apple-ios-8-0-1-released

Apple let you downgrade to 8.2 until about two weeks ago.

Beta software tester downgrade to the working current release all the time.

See this chart for what is allowed. Don't know were or how the author gets the data. Has been accurate in my experience.

http://api.ineal.me/tss/status

Apple stepped on their foot in this instance.

Robert

No Deggie, you're wrong. Rolling back was enabled for years. Just not now. Security? Right...... Either way, in the real world, in IT, we can't just say "we're going to this and that's it" with no back up, roll back plan, etc. Apple can. They could care less.

And yes, that's a moronic thing to do. The most moronic thing is a 2 month fix to roll it out. Pathetic.

No I'm not wrong. Apple has NEVER supported rolling back versions on the iPhone OS or iOS. Ever. They do leave signed versions available of the previous versions available from 5 - 7 days primarily for developers.

Yes, it is part of their global security plan for iOS. In the real world. And with some minor exceptions (like the current iMessage issue) it has worked very well. Much better than Android is doing right now.

You obviously are very upset with this and don't agree with the way Apple is handling it. Stand your ground and vote with your wallet. Buy a device from another company to handle your aviation needs and quit using the iPad. Problem solved.

You do love the word moron.

Are the people who make the GPS devices in question that didn't notice this before 8.3 was released also morons?

Considering that's several companies like Dual and Bad Elf, I'd say no. Good try though.

It is actually primarily those two companies and as developers they should have had access to all builds on iOS 8.3. So why no alert from them until after the fact? And it isn't affecting all outboard GPS devices working with iPads.

Bottom line is Apple never developed or participated in the market for using outboard GPS devices for pilots, captains, etc. and has no formal affiliation with the companies involved. It is a niche vertical market, doesn't represent even a blip on Apple's overall sales and it is highly unlikely they test if these devices and the software from the companies involve work with newer versions of iOS. It is a mistake that something was changed that made some of these devices no longer function but the change that was made was inadvertent and most likely related to changes made for the Apple Watch. Perhaps now that they are going to fix a bug regarding the Message app they will release an 8.3.1 and include the GPS fix. Or they will wait for both in 8.4.

This is why with all vertical software it is best to wait to upgrade until your software and/or hardware vendor has tested the changes and assures you their products will work.

rccharles wrote:

petermac87 wrote:

Apple has never made it possible to downgrade iOS. Your firmware is updated at the same time.

Pete

This isn't true. Apple has so far allowed you to downgrade ios for about a week after they post a new ios version. Remember 8.0.1? Apple pull this release and suggest use downgrade to 8.0.

http://www.theverge.com/2014/9/24/6839235/apple-ios-8-0-1-released

Apple let you downgrade to 8.2 until about two weeks ago.

Beta software tester downgrade to the working current release all the time.

See this chart for what is allowed. Don't know were or how the author gets the data. Has been accurate in my experience.

http://api.ineal.me/tss/status

Apple stepped on their foot in this instance.

Robert

Then Apple steps on it's foot every update. Third party developers should know by now to run their products against Beta releases and report their shortcomings then. Apple has never supported downgrading of iOS. Previous releases are left signed for a brief time, yes. 8.0.1 was their one poor update and was immediately replaced with iOS8.0.2 and not a rollback. The suggestion was for the impatient ones who could not wait until the revised update very very shortly after, as it was still signed. It remained signed for the usual week or so.

I do not know where or how the author of your link claims to get their info, which is why I would choose to ignore it.

Pete

doggie, with respect you, seem to be missing the point that the reason external GPS are not working with 8.3 has nothing to do with Dual or Bad Elf. The external GPS have been working with iOS in the way Apple prescribe for several years. Why, when Apple promoted 8.3 as a bug fix release would they suspect that Apple was going to break something that had been working for years? It was not a question of the GPS guys not paying attention. There was no change to the BT / GPS functionality predicted by Apple. And, it was Apple that broke iOS not Dual or Bad Elf. The fact that some GPS hardware works with a defective 8.3 is because they are not using the Apple endorsed and promoted method of delivering GPS position to the Nav Apps.

Clearly, no GPS supplier will ever trust Apple again and neither will I and surely that is a regrettable state of affairs?

I will not try 8.4 beta 2 when it is known to be buggy. There is already a beta 3 and there'll probably be a beta 4 before 8.4 is released as final around mid June.

I had intended to upgrade my iPad 3 to an iPad Air and my mini to the latest mini and this time get WiFi + cell. I was also planning to replace my 4S with a 6+ and my wife's 4s to a 6 but based on this experience I will, over time, and at my convenience phase Apple out altogether Due to their cavalier attitude to aviators. Nothing would give me more pleasure than slapping the face of the person responsible for not bringing out a quick fix 8.3.1 And, although Apple won't miss my custom I certainly won't miss Apples arrogant disregard of its customers.

I never said the change had anything to do with Dual or Bad Elf. What I and others have said it is incumbent on both companies to act as developers and test any beta versions of iOS that are being developed and tell Apple if there is an issue. In other words do testing. I found it odd in reading the Bad Elf site that they made no mention of the any changes in 8.4, it was actually you who posted that.

I can comment on the status of Beta 2 (nor can anyone else) but I've not read any problems occurring that would interfere with your usage but that is your choice. Yes, there are subsequent betas but those are to deal with specific issues, not the overall workability of the iOS.

Apple never designed the iPad, Touch, or anything in iOS for the purposes that you are using it. The companies involved discovered they could use the hardware and some APIs to accomplish what they wanted to do. And apparently the companies involved never worked closely with Apple. As I said earlier Apple never tested the changes with iOS 8.3 and a Dual or Bad Elf device. They did not know that the change they made affected those devices. I seriously doubt they have any of their units in their shop. And I believe the change or changes made had to do with the Apple Watch which they were under pressure to finish. Unfortunate yes but an unexpected consequence. But this is why GPS suppliers need to sign on as developers and test new releases.

I generally support what you say but this is not an item where just Apple made a change to their operating system and broke another vendors device with no warning. As I've learned since this started the change did not affect all hardware and software which means some out there were actually testing or they used different means to make their products work.

Dual and Bad Elf should have never been "trusting" Apple. That is not the way the process works. They both should have been testing.

If you think this is the first time (or last) that this has happened you are mistaken. Microsoft in the past has made changes to their OS that completely broke certain 3rd party hardware. They did not ever change the OS to make them work again because they never designed the OS for that function. Such is the life of vertical small hardware vendors.

Apple hasn't disrespected anyone. It is a major thing to release an update with both risks and costs involved. They also knew where they were with 8.4. This also happens frequently with car Bluetooth systems. Apple obviously doesn't test new versions of iOS with every model car and head unit with a BT connection. On occasion something will go awry (did with a car I had) and I reported it. Apple fixed it in the next update which was 4 months later. Does this mean they "arrogantly" disregarded me? Should they put out an update every week?

It is amazing to me that pilots actually flew small aircraft prior to the iPad being released yet somehow this problem has grounded all of them.

Enjoy your Windows or Android phones and I'm sure if you find a pilot related issue they will rush out a fix within 48 hours.

You need to practice good computer hygiene.

-- wait for other people to experiment.

-- don't upgrade all your devices at once.

-- quickly test important functions and downgrade in the allowed time period if needed. I've observed apple lets you downgrade for about a week with a new iteration of ios. This conflicts with the point above.

-- always do lots of backup. Learn how you can make a copy of the backup that iTunes does.

The gps manufactures should add a page to their web site stating what what versions of ios they have tested successfully.

There is not such thing bug fix only. Bug fix releases are the most buggie.

Apple would have caused less grief with a way of downgrading.

Robert

As you and I both know Apple will never support downgrading on iOS for security reasons. People who want to have this ability have other options. Totally agree with your good computer hygiene and your recommendation to the GPS manufacturers although I think in the end it is going to turn out to be the software development companies that Dual and Bad Elf deal with that failed to do this.

"NOTE: Portable EFBs are limited to hosting Type A and Type B software applications with intended functions limited to a minor failure effect classification. However, Type B software applications using a depiction of an own-ship symbol are limited to airport surface operations only and to speeds of less than 80 kts ground speed." par 9 page 5

http://www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/media/advisory_circular/ac_120-76c.pdf

I'm not a pilot.

Robert