Final Cut Pro X H265 Support

The last update to FCP X was in April 2014.

The last update was September 3, 2015.

Thanks, Tom. I forgot the September 3, 2015 update. I don't recall what that update included, but I don't think it had any new features nor did it correct some bugs present in the April 2015 update.

Tom

TomWheel wrote:

H.265 (aka HEVC) is now in use by Amazon, Netflix, Ultraflix, and numerous other 4K streaming sources for streaming 4K video and movies. …

what Tom (Wolsky) said: Do you own a server? 😉

or, in other words, looks like 'broadcast technology', not share tech.

netflix delivers 'adaptive', h264/720, or 1080, and if the stream is fast enough (constant 15mbps… ) and buffered, switches to h265 - so, I think, they ask for some 'master' file (proRes?) and convert to their needs.

hardware acceleration is actually just in some TVs (Samsung axed their h265 cameras, which were the only ones on the market). Does any future Intel chips contain h265-acceleration? (I don't know) What about phones/tabletts? ok, 4k on 5" is .... 😝 h265 decoding is very demanding, without a designated h265-chip a battery drainer 😀 Which Samsung phones have a designated h265hardware decoder?

… for web-video, YouTube is still the 'master of desaster' (anyone remembers flv?).... what will happen to Googles own VP9? And, as netflix, adaptive streaming ....

I could imagine, Apple leaves it to some 3rd party plugin maker to teach Compressor h265 for the very few needing it. We've seen it with other features in/for FCPX: the smaller the market the more it's a plugin....

btw: Larry Jordan isn't happy with Adobes implemention of h265 ....

Karsten,

Owning a server is neither a necessary or sufficient condition for valuing or using the h.265 (HEVC) codec. This codec was, as you probably know, developed as a successor to h.264 and is designed to offer higher quality than h.264 at significantly smaller file sizes and higher bit rates. With the growing popularity of 4K video, h.265 becomes more and more useful, especially if you are capturing 4K video on DSLR's or encoding 4K video to play back to current 4K TV's via a USB flash drive. I own and have used for a year the Samsung NX-1 which encodes to h.265. You are correct that Samsung has, at least for the moment withdrawn from the digital camera market in many countries, although the NX-1 is still for sale here in the U.S. It is interesting that the Samsung NX-1 was voted by Preview as the "Gear of the Yea" (2015) based on its ground breaking feature set (including h.265) and overall high image quality. Sometimes as you must surely know, business decisions are contradictory to technological advancements (The Sony betamax vs. VHS format war of many years ago is just one example that comes to mind.)

Virtually all 4K TV's offered in 2015 supported playback of h.265 from USB flash drives, and many of my friends were taking their NX-1 footage into BestBuy and playing it successfully on the 2015 4K TV's. I have no idea whether Intel's newest chips support hardware acceleration for h.265 playback, but I have read that Apple's iPhone 6S and 6S Plus use h.265 for recording 4K video. You are correct that h.265 decoding is very demanding of the cpu, but the current Late 2013 Mac Pro and my 2012 Macbook Pro with Retina Display both play back h.265 clips fine in Premiere Pro CC and in Windows 10. Windows 10 provides native support for 4K playback whereas Adobe has provided the h.265 codec which allows both playback of h.265 and encoding to h.265.

I have successfully encoded several FCP X projects to h.265 by first sharing them to a master ProRes file and then bringing that into Adobe's Media Encoder and encoding them to h.265. I play them back using a USB flash drive plugged into my Roku 4 streaming box and send them to a Sony VPL-VW665ES 4K video projector for display on a 100 in. screen. They look beautiful to me and to others who have seen them. I don't know what Larry Jordan's problem is with h.265 as implemented by Adobe and I have not seen any comments that he has made to that effect, although I could surely have missed them. My own experience with.265 in Adobe's Premiere Pro CC and Media Encoder CC have been trouble free and produced excellent results.

I suspect that the main obstacle to including h.265 implementation in OX X, FCP X, and YouTube is what the usual obstacle is: money. It is my understanding the the consortium that developed this codec is demanding pay for its use. Some companies are balking at this. We shall just have to see how all of this works out, but for now I remain convinced of the superiority of the h.265 codec to h.264, and I hate having to work in Windows 10 or other software on the Mac to encode to this format.

Tom

@Tom

I share many of your points (e.g. h265 is more effecient than 264), but it seems hard to explain my point about 'broadcast vs sharing codec':

there's actually no consumer device delivering h265; there's - aside tellies… latest ones - no hardware support for h265, camcorders, photos, phones, laptops, tablets, desktops. So, who is interesting in encoding to h265? What I call 'broadcasters', not in traditional meaning (aerial, BBC) but 'commercial mass deliverers' - netflix/amazon/… , and, actually, YT (which own their own HVCcodec)

but all those 'broadcasters' HAVE to deliver multi-standard = adaptive, because of bandwith (who's able to watch 4k-streams at primetime? that's a very narrow and priviledged group), device (my TV doesn't offer 4k …), usage (4k on handleds ...). So, as a content maker, there's little reason&need to upload in h265 - they will convert it anyhow.

And if I want to share 4k, I can use ye ol h264 anyhow. My 4k cam records in h264 ... converting to h265 would save 20% upload, then YT converts it back to h264 for most of my audience = loss of quality (the pixelpeepers upload in proRes anyhow).

… getting lengthy again, sorry …

aside trouble with patents, money and politics, there's very little need to install h265-encoding ... yet.

and de-coding either.

hen vs egg - as long h265 doesn't get hardwired on consumer chips, I don't see h265 as an 'sharing' option. (or you operate your own server ... 😉 )

for an export option, in the Apple-ecosphere it's a business opportunity for a plug-in maker (reminds me of the story with Hamburg Pro Media/MXF support etc)

…

PS: concerning LJ, I was reflecting on that

https://larryjordan.com/articles/adobe-media-encoder-and-h-265-not-ready-for-pri me-time/

but missed his update which 'fixes' a few of his concerns ....

PPS: btw that's a very refreshing and 'mature' discussion! … compared to the crusades on some other boards .... 😀

Latest update on 2/4/16 and still no sign of H.265 support.

My digital signage players require their 4K to be H265 only. Having to use other applications (Handbrake or AME) to get there should be unnecessary. Come on Apple!

WWe're users here. Can't really help you. You might want to use feedback instead.

Wasn't really looking for help. Just making a comment about the need for H265 in FCPX.

Fair enough. I think Tom's point is that comments made on this user forum about the need for H.265 won't reach the people at Apple you want to reach. The best place is via FCP X Feedback.

Russ

Jim-H wrote:

Latest update on 2/4/16 …

latest update:

Technicolor leaves HEVC advanced patent pool

.... "bag of hurt" - visionairy … 😉

and goes to a proprietary model licensed to each manufacturer, who in turn will make their own variant f probably layered on MPEG-2 transport, MPEG-4 GOP, in different kinds of wrappers. more duelling formats coming down the road, more users complaining about why FCP doesn't support the latest, greatest XYZ camera from Canonysonic that's in a unique format unlike the version in the ZYX camera from Panyanon.

for what it's worth, RockyMountains Movie Converter is great at transcoding h265 to prores: https://sourceforge.net/projects/rockymountainsmovieconverter/files/

Its a bit funny. Apple where the champion of industry standard H264 and build in acceleration for it OS wide back in 2004. That is years before PCs could play 1080P content. Now Windows10 have filesystem support for H265 so icons are shown correctly, not in OSX.

There are some problems with H265 and its one of the reasons why H265 isn't available for example on AppleTV4 even if A8 SoC was the first SoC with H265 decoder/encoder.

And here is the problem: Only the latest Intel chips Skylake have H265 decoder and a quick sync H265 encoder. Apple therefore have a fragmented market. Every single Mac without dGPU beside latest iMac don't have H265 decoder or encoder. This is why AppleTV4 don't have 4K support even if A8 can manage it because the best thing with AppleTV have always been Airplay. Airplay in 4K can't be done without Quicksync encoder. Only in latest 27inch iMac.

PC don't have this problem since Adobe /Sony can release software with H265 support and don't care if the hardware have H265 decoding or not. "But does decoder matter?". Yes it does. Take any mac without encoder and try to play a H265 720P/1080P. Even with 100% CPU time 720P barely works. Forget 1080P.

This is one of the problems with Intels crappy graphics cards that are bundled on almost all macs.

Yes: Apple should release a h265 plugin for hardware that support decoding, but knowing the internet most people will be angry. Imagine buying the latest small Retina iMac with Broadwell and no H265 decoder.

Later this year Apple should roll out hardware with h265. Maybe even updating a 3 year old MacPro but Tim is more about making TV shows.

This is again evidence that Apple should dump Intel and move to ARM. That would give Apple enormous advantage since they can combine hardware and software. "We want Siri" = The noise cancellation DSP in A5. "We want TouchID" = Security Enclave in A7. "We want H265" = Encoder/Decoder in A8. "we want hey Siri" = M7 coprocessor. (and Intel introduced listening DSPs in Skylake).

I just wanted to second the need for h.265 in Final Cut Pro X. Since Premier has native support for the codec, I will probably be switching over once I get my Samsung NX 1.

Old thread that I came across while researching; One doesn't need an HEVC Streaming server.

All Apple and Android devices in the past two years already support HEVC for display.

Most television panels/displays have been supporting HEVC for at least two years.

All major hosting sites support HEVC and determine use based on client side need.

HEVC can be wrapped in a variety of packages (ala Quicktime), but is also a standard. Apple was the champion of h.264, it seems hypocritical that h.265 isn't supported yet. The standard is now nearly 3 years old. Several "low end" software tools offer encode to h.265.

Regardless, there is no reason to fear, hate, dislike, or not access HEVC. It is a long-term, future standard. And it looks incredible. In my "Beyond the Full HD presentations, I show an uncompressed HD source vs HEVC render in a split screen, displayed in a ProRes codec. It's incredibly rare the audience can tell which is which whether looking on a projection or display monitor.

Loving HEVC over here, using Premiere for the encode, still re-learning FCPX.