Hi guys.
I want to install Windows 10 with USB device in my MBA late 2012 i5 1,7Ghz/128SSD OWC/4Gb (El Capitan 10.11.3 beta)
my simply question is: What is the better to windows system performance BootCamp drivers or Manufacturer drivers?
Manufacturer drivers It´s up to update, Apple drivers...
Thanks for all!
iMac, OS X El Capitan (10.11.1), Macbook Air 11" 2012 + MacMini 2014
Ok...
But have a problem with bootcamp drivers intall.
I install Windows 10 now since a USB Device created in Macbook Air Late 2012. I change last year 64Gb SSD factory for OWC Aura 6G 128Gb.
Well, when start BootCamp drivers, install program freeze in audio drivers... Pass about ten minutes and see...
It doesn´t move... tic-tac..
Much more interesting is how Apple is driving it. Since no one has a 5K timing controller (TCON) yet, Apple went and built their own. This is the first time we’re aware of Apple doing such a thing for a Mac, but it’s likely they just haven’t talked about it before. In any case, Apple was kind enough to confirm that they are driving the new iMac’s display with a single TCON. This is not a multi-tile display, but instead is a single 5120x2880 mode.
This also means that since it isn’t multi-tile, Apple would need to drive it over a single DisplayPort connection, which is actually impossible with conventional DisplayPort HBR2. We’re still getting to the bottom of how Apple is doing this (and hence the sneaky nature of the iMac), but currently our best theory is that Apple is running an overclocked DisplayPort/eDP interface along with some very low overhead timings to get just enough bandwidth for the job. Since the iMac is an all-in-one device, Apple is more or less free to violate specifications and do what they want so long as it isn’t advertised as DisplayPort and doesn’t interact with 3rdparty devices.
Update: And for anyone wondering whether you can drive the 5K display as an external display using Target Display Mode, Apple has confirmed that you cannot.
Right... But this is an isolated case (TCON). Generic components also use generic drivers I think... Only drivers that can´t update, was driver from Apple property and Apple provider this update from Apple Web or BootCamp update...
For example, it's curious that my Macbook Air 2012 only out update, chip drivers, the other It´s update 🙂
I just update and Macbook Air work funny 🙂
It is not W10, it is Apple's BC drivers which they do not want to certify on older hardware, so you can buy newer Macs.
But this is not problem... Only create BootCamp partition and them with USB key install Windows 10 and install bootcamp preference + generic manufacture drivers (much tutorial in the web to do it..)
The first fully-UEFI Macs are Late 2013 models, yet you can install W10 EFI on 2012 models, where the OSX EFI is used as ESP. Macs with 1.1EFI can also be upgraded via EFI update to be UEFI, if necessary, but Apple chose not to do it. This is again due to lack of driver certification.
I interesting read about it. Where can I found news or article about this?
Thanks!
Loner T wrote:
All the Intel GPUs on Windows PCs support a feature called WiDi (Wireless Display). The same GPUs do not support the same feature on Macs, instead AirPlay is used. Most AMD GPUs have modified firmware from Apple, and the product IDs do not match generic product IDs. Using a generic BT driver does not support Apple keyboard features. Trackpad drivers are also similar. It is not an isolated case.
Please see Can't resize Macintosh HD partition as an example of W10 on a 2012 MBP using EFI 1.1 and ESP.
It´s true, same CPU Socks haven´t the same features. Feature spect determined by number or final letter for example:
It´s true too that same other devices (GPU or BT Devices) in Apple Macs has diferent firmwares although be the same physic board... Apple Word I suppose 🙂
At moment I only update onboard intel chipset and haven´t problem
The 5K link I posted has a link to http://www.anandtech.com/show/8623/hands-on-apples-imac-with-retina-display which has
Much more interesting is how Apple is driving it. Since no one has a 5K timing controller (TCON) yet, Apple went and built their own. This is the first time we’re aware of Apple doing such a thing for a Mac, but it’s likely they just haven’t talked about it before. In any case, Apple was kind enough to confirm that they are driving the new iMac’s display with a single TCON. This is not a multi-tile display, but instead is a single 5120x2880 mode.
This also means that since it isn’t multi-tile, Apple would need to drive it over a single DisplayPort connection, which is actually impossible with conventional DisplayPort HBR2. We’re still getting to the bottom of how Apple is doing this (and hence the sneaky nature of the iMac), but currently our best theory is that Apple is running an overclocked DisplayPort/eDP interface along with some very low overhead timings to get just enough bandwidth for the job. Since the iMac is an all-in-one device, Apple is more or less free to violate specifications and do what they want so long as it isn’t advertised as DisplayPort and doesn’t interact with 3rdparty devices.
Update: And for anyone wondering whether you can drive the 5K display as an external display using Target Display Mode, Apple has confirmed that you cannot.
One question: Why can´t install Windows 10 in Macs olther tham 2012? Does Windows 10 unsuport this component? I haven´t idea... May be unsupport Intel graphics devices < HD 3000?
It is not W10, it is Apple's BC drivers which they do not want to certify on older hardware, so you can buy newer Macs. 😉
I think that all this problems is for Mac "EFI" from install legacy Windows 10 for example. Apple have update UEFI I suppose. My post means to log from specifict problem with Mac hardware.
The first fully-UEFI Macs are Late 2013 models, yet you can install W10 EFI on 2012 models, where the OSX EFI is used as ESP. Macs with 1.1EFI can also be upgraded via EFI update to be UEFI, if necessary, but Apple chose not to do it. This is again due to lack of driver certification.
Reply myself xD
I found a solution, when the installation hangs at realtek audio:
1. DO NOT turn it off
2. go to your bootcamp folder, manually install the realtek driver, DO NOT restart
3. after manully setup, openTask Manage, and kill the "RealtekSetup" process
4. bootcamp will skip the Realte, and have fun
See the answer in contextRe: boot camp installation hangs at realtek audio stepSearch or ask a questionRe: boot camp installation hangs at realtek audio stepSearch or ask a questionRe: boot camp installation hangs at realtek audio stepSearch or ask a question
If the drivers provide full functionality and features, why not use a certified/stable driver rather than a driver with a new date, which is not certified by the hardware vendor (Apple), but is on the WHQL list which is different hardware, despite having the same marketing/sales/generic name.
Every single AMD driver that Apple has used so far, has been different from AMD's WHQL driver set. AMD even hosts a separate page for BC drivers - http://support.amd.com/en-us/download/desktop/bootcamp . It is poor customer service to not host BC-certified W10 drivers on the AMD side.
The only AMD GPU Mac I have is a Mac Mini with AMD 6630m (Mac mini (Mid 2011) - Technical Specifications) using BC drivers. The other is the original Mini (Mac mini (original) - Technical Specifications) which is ATI.
GoldFran wrote:
Apple since 7 years (more or less) use "generic" hardware... The problem has that Apple it´s very "demanding" and manufacture developers has drivers from your spect hardware not apple spect (only AMD?)...
That is not true. Please see http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/apples-5k-imac-is-innovation-thats-worth- talking-about/ .
If drivers from Windows were dangerous, device log or web site would warn...
Does anyone read the warnings? Users are still trying to install W10 on Macs prior to 2012. Why? Please this as an example Boot Camp: iMac displays a black screen during installation of Windows 7 - Apple Support or Retina 5K - AMD Boot Camp Driver failure . nVidia is much better at keeping/writing drivers which work properly on the Windows side. AMD has a very poor record.
It´s possible that new drivers in all % will be better than old drivers... If you install manufacture drivers, I´m sure that haven´t any problem
They also have problems. Why are there so many driver updates from driver vendors for Windows, while BC/Windows can run on drivers which are almost an year old? Look at Intel GPU drivers. They cause problems on Macs with Intel GPUs. Some users cannot even install because Windows wants to push WHQL drivers.
That is not true. Please see http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/apples-5k-imac-is-innovation-thats-worth- talking-about/ .
Sorry, You have be more xplicit, I don´t know you show me in this link (probably for my poor English).
Does anyone read the warnings? Users are still trying to install W10 on Macs prior to 2012. Why? Please this as an example Boot Camp: iMac displays a black screen during installation of Windows 7 - Apple Support or Retina 5K - AMD Boot Camp Driver failure . nVidia is much better at keeping/writing drivers which work properly on the Windows side. AMD has a very poor record.
I think that all this problems is for Mac "EFI" from install legacy Windows 10 for example. Apple have update UEFI I suppose. My post means to log from specifict problem with Mac hardware.
One question: Why can´t install Windows 10 in Macs olther tham 2012? Does Windows 10 unsuport this component? I haven´t idea... May be unsupport Intel graphics devices < HD 3000?
They also have problems. Why are there so many driver updates from driver vendors for Windows, while BC/Windows can run on drivers which are almost an year old? Look at Intel GPU drivers. They cause problems on Macs with Intel GPUs. Some users cannot even install because Windows wants to push WHQL drivers.
All drivers no need to up to update... For example, GPU drivers, because Games or video render need continous optimization I think... Ethernet or audio drivers update from months... onboard chips update more tham others...
In my Macbook Air mid 2012 with Intel i5 1,7 + 4Gb + Intel Graphics 3000 and 128 SSD OWC install manufacture drivers and run very well...
All the Intel GPUs on Windows PCs support a feature called WiDi (Wireless Display). The same GPUs do not support the same feature on Macs, instead AirPlay is used. Most AMD GPUs have modified firmware from Apple, and the product IDs do not match generic product IDs. Using a generic BT driver does not support Apple keyboard features. Trackpad drivers are also similar. It is not an isolated case.
Please see Can't resize Macintosh HD partition as an example of W10 on a 2012 MBP using EFI 1.1 and ESP.
GoldFran wrote:
It´s true too that same other devices (GPU or BT Devices) in Apple Macs has diferent firmwares although be the same physic board... Apple Word I suppose 🙂
At moment I only update onboard intel chipset and haven´t problem
Because of firmware differences, in general, WHQL drivers do not work. If the WHQL drivers and Apple-specific ones have different firmware and different PID/VID, they should not even install for the same physical board because of such differences. Yet, WHQL drivers are pushed to Macs and cause failures.
This indicates bad management of such differences and drivers that correspond to such differences. Here is an example of such bad management - Retina 5K - AMD Boot Camp Driver failure . Between Apple, Microsoft and vendors, this is bad for consumers. The linked discussion is about an year old. 😉
I have kept copies of the original USBs with which I installed Windows (W7 on my Mac Minis 2011/2012) to avoid bad drivers killing the OSes. I personally will never buy another AMD GPU Mac. Look at the 2013 MacPros with AMD GPUs.
Loner T wrote:
Because of firmware differences, in general, WHQL drivers do not work. If the WHQL drivers and Apple-specific ones have different firmware and different PID/VID, they should not even install for the same physical board because of such differences. Yet, WHQL drivers are pushed to Macs and cause failures.
This indicates bad management of such differences and drivers that correspond to such differences. Here is an example of such bad management - Retina 5K - AMD Boot Camp Driver failure . Between Apple, Microsoft and vendors, this is bad for consumers. The linked discussion is about an year old. 😉
I have kept copies of the original USBs with which I installed Windows (W7 on my Mac Minis 2011/2012) to avoid bad drivers killing the OSes. I personally will never buy another AMD GPU Mac. Look at the 2013 MacPros with AMD GPUs.
Yep, It´s very curious... The problem is that all this, affects consumers... And this consumers can´t "enjoy" the latest update drivers... Always the same problem between manufacturers...
the anyway I do these tests with my Macbook Air so this crash, restore it and enjoy 🙂
It is obvious, I strongly disagree with Loner T because BootCamp drivers It´s very outdate... It´s possible that I don´t want update last version but at least 2nd new version for example.
New drivers imply probably new bugs but are more optimized and bugless
Sorry, I´m not convinced that you tell me 🙂
Apple since 7 years (more or less) use "generic" hardware... The problem has that Apple it´s very "demanding" and manufacture developers has drivers from your spect hardware not apple spect (only AMD?)...
If drivers from Windows were dangerous, device log or web site would warn...
It´s possible that new drivers in all % will be better than old drivers... If you install manufacture drivers, I´m sure that haven´t any problem
Thanks!
Its dificult to me discuss in english, sorry xD
Thanks, GoldFran , for that little discussion. It is rare to have such discussions on ASC, because the focus is always on solving problems reported by users, and very little on technical discussions which focus on other issues.
Yes! It is a pleasure for me too.
the problem is that I speak English more or less basic level. You advantage to me 🙂
I like to discuss because the solution to problems is easily found on the web but a good discuss It´s hard to find 🙂 If my English level was better, I would always discuss.
Remember, I´m a SysAdmin (high tech, security and Windows and HP Server 🙂) Interesting to me tech forums
BootCamp drivers or Manufacturer drivers?
