Level 7

20,737 points

New iMac slow as molasses

I bought a new iMac last month and I've got to say that I'm really disappointed. I'm hoping that someone here can tell me something that I'm doing wrong as it so slow it's disgraceful.

First, some background... I bought it to replace a nine-year old iMac that couldn't handle the latest iteration of Photoshop (because of the video card). Well, it does satisfy that requirement. However, the performance, as I indicated above, is disgraceful.

I used the latest version of MS Word (16.9.1) to do some timing comparisons. I used the same 1-page Word doc in each case. With Word shut down, I measured the time from double-clicking on a document to the point when the document can be viewed. The following is what I saw.

Nine-year old iMac... Ten seconds.

***

Four-year old MBP... Ten seconds.

***

BRAND NEW iMac... Thirty-five seconds!

***

In desperation, I reloaded the MacOS. It made no difference at all. What am I doing wrong? What can/should I do to fix this situation?

iMac (Retina 4K, 21.5-inch, 2017), macOS High Sierra (10.13.2), null

Posted on Feb 5, 2018 6:17 PM

Top-ranking reply

MichelPM

Level 10

81,535 points

Posted on Feb 6, 2018 6:05 AM

Philly_Phan

You’re a level 6 contributor here and you do not know why a baseline iMac that you purchased is slow?

I have posted here many times, MANY TIMES why the most of the baseline 21 inch iMac models are dog slow.

Here I go posting this info, once again, for your benefit.

For staters, you gotta already know that the newest macOS versions, from like Yosemite and newer need a full 8 GBs of RAM, just for the OS.

So, you are already in the hole with NOT having enough available RAM for other running applications.

Next.

In order to speed that iMac up, you are going to have to spend some extra cash to get this basic, baseline iMac up to par.

You, at least purchase one of the two models that have independent GPUs. So, that was good.

Fortunately, starting with these new 2017, 21 inch screen iMac models, Apple has returned to being able to upgrade the RAM in the 21 inch screen model iMacs.

The bad news is that, in order to retain any AppleCare warranties, you will have to pay Apple prices to install the extra 8 GBs of RAM in these 21 inch screen iMacs as the RAM is not “user installable” in any of the new, 2017, 21 inch screen iMac models.

Only Apple Stores are ONLY allowed install the additional RAM into these new, 2017, 21 inch screen iMac models.

Next.

The Apple is STILL using hard drives and fusion drives in these 21 inch screen iMacs that are 33% slower 5400 RPM laptop hard drives instead of the “normal” and “ desktop standard” 7200 RPM mechanical spinning hard drives.

This means 33% slower read/writes to these drives and slower seek times!

And the SSD attached to these 5400 spinning laptop hard drives is a measly 28 GBs of SSD storage!

The ONLY viable and speedy storage drive options in these new, 2017, 21 inch screen iMacs IS THE SSD drive option!

The fix?

Forget the internal hard drive (use it strictly as a backup storage and emergency boot drive) and purchase an external USB 3.0/3.1 connected 256, 500 GBs or 1.0 TB pure all SSD drive.

Install a Mac OS (or purchase and use data cloning software, like CarbonCopyCloner or SuperDuper to clone your current internal system setup) to this external SSD drive and make the external SSD drive your permanent boot drive!

Your iMac will run A WHOLE LOT FASTER than it does now from an external USB 3.0/3.1 SSD drive!

A WHOLE LOT FASTER from an external SSD drive!

That is all I can recommend in, sort of, a nutshell.

These added purchased improvements will make a fairly HUGE performance in your current iMac model.

Sell this iMac and purchase one with 16 GBs of RAM and a pure internal SSD.

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32 replies

Philly_Phan Author

Level 7

20,737 points

Feb 6, 2018 8:53 AM in response to CountryGirl56

CountryGirl56 wrote:

One issue may be that your iMac has a relatively slow 5400rpm HDD fused with a relatively small SSD (24GB)

I am really fascinated by this clamor for a bazillion bytes of RAM and SSD. The entire Word application isn't much more than 2GB.

I think what's being lost here is that, perhaps unlike you and Michel, when I run Photoshop (or Lightroom), I want to concentrate on what I'm doing. NO OTHER applications are open, not even Mail (I don't want the occasional "Ding"). Perhaps others want to use multiple applications simultaneously and that, of course, will make a difference.

Bear in mind that I'm not claiming that a bazillion bytes of RAM and/or SSD is a bad thing. However, I do maintain that it's not a necessity.

Philly_Phan Author

Level 7

20,737 points

Feb 5, 2018 8:09 PM in response to CountryGirl56

Actually the MBP is HDD and the new iMac is Fusion. Neither one is pure SSD.

Philly_Phan Author

Level 7

20,737 points

Feb 5, 2018 6:58 PM in response to CountryGirl56

OK, I did that (posted below) BUT, before you read the test results, be advised of the following.

I did a tiny bit more testing (with Word) before you responded and I discovered that the extreme delay occurs only the first time that I open the application after logon. If I quit Word and then double-click the document, it's a snappy five seconds! The MBP is consistently ten seconds under all circumstances. I no longer own the old iMac so I'm unable to check that one. While I do feel a bit better, there is still something weird with the new iMac.

In any event, I logged off and logged back on and then ran the Etre test. I don't know how to interpret the results. I'm hoping that you do.

EtreCheck version: 3.4.6 (460)

Report generated 2018-02-05 21:42:45

Download EtreCheck from https://etrecheck.com

Runtime: 2:34

Performance: Excellent

Click the [Lookup] links for more information from Apple Support Communities.

Click the [Details] links for more information about that line.

Problem: Computer is too slow

Hardware Information:ⓘ

iMac (Retina 4K, 21.5-inch, 2017)

[Technical Specifications] - [User Guide] - [Warranty & Service]

iMac - model: iMac18,2

1 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5 (i5-7500) CPU: 4-core

8 GB RAM Upgradeable - [Instructions]

BANK 0/DIMM0

4 GB DDR4 2400 MHz ok

BANK 1/DIMM0

4 GB DDR4 2400 MHz ok

Handoff/Airdrop2: supported

Wireless: en1: 802.11 a/b/g/n/ac

iCloud Quota: 4.68 GB available

Video Information:ⓘ

Radeon Pro 560 - VRAM: 4 GB

iMac 4096 x 2304

Disk Information:ⓘ

APPLE HDD HTS541010A9E632 disk0: (1 TB) (Rotational)

[Show SMART report]

EFI (disk0s1 - MS-DOS FAT32) <not mounted> [EFI]: 210 MB

(disk0s2) <not mounted> [CoreStorage Container]: 999.35 GB

Recovery HD (disk0s3 - HFS+) <not mounted> [Recovery]: 650 MB

APPLE SSD SM0032L disk1: (28 GB) (Solid State - TRIM: Yes)

(disk1s1) <not mounted> [EFI]: 315 MB

(disk1s2) <not mounted> [CoreStorage Container]: 27.55 GB

(disk1s3) <not mounted> [Boot]: 134 MB

USB Information:ⓘ

USB31Bus

LaCie P9227 Slim

P9227 Slim disk4: (1 TB)

EFI (disk4s1 - MS-DOS FAT32) <not mounted> [EFI]: 210 MB

Backup (disk4s2 - HFS+) /Volumes/Backup : 999.86 GB (614.46 GB free)

LaCie P9227 Slim

P9227 Slim disk3: (1 TB)

EFI (disk3s1 - MS-DOS FAT32) <not mounted> [EFI]: 210 MB

Photos (disk3s2 - Journaled HFS+) /Volumes/Photos : 999.86 GB (899.65 GB free)

USB30Bus

Broadcom Corp. Bluetooth USB Host Controller

Apple Inc. FaceTime HD Camera (Built-in)

Canon CanoScan

Fitbit Inc. Fitbit Base Station

Canon iP4900 series

Thunderbolt Information:ⓘ

Apple Inc. thunderbolt_bus

Virtual disks:ⓘ

Macintosh HD (disk2 - Journaled HFS+) / [Startup]: 1.03 TB (811.68 GB free)

Physical disk: disk1s2 27.55 GB Online

Physical disk: disk0s2 999.35 GB Online

System Software:ⓘ

macOS High Sierra 10.13.3 (17D47) - Time since boot: about 6 days

Gatekeeper:ⓘ

Mac App Store and identified developers

Kernel Extensions:ⓘ

/Library/Extensions

[loaded] com.malwarebytes.mbam.rtprotection (3.1 - SDK 10.12) [Lookup]

System Launch Agents:ⓘ

[not loaded] 8 Apple tasks

[loaded] 178 Apple tasks

[running] 104 Apple tasks

System Launch Daemons:ⓘ

[not loaded] 34 Apple tasks

[loaded] 169 Apple tasks

[running] 127 Apple tasks

Launch Agents:ⓘ

[running] com.adobe.AdobeCreativeCloud.plist (Adobe Systems, Inc. - installed 2017-09-26) [Lookup]

[not loaded] com.adobe.GC.Invoker-1.0.plist (Adobe Systems, Inc. - installed 2018-01-25) [Lookup]

[loaded] com.google.keystone.agent.plist (Google, Inc. - installed 2017-09-27) [Lookup]

[running] com.malwarebytes.mbam.frontend.agent.plist (Malwarebytes Corporation - installed 2017-11-08) [Lookup]

[loaded] com.microsoft.update.agent.plist (Microsoft Corporation - installed 2018-01-25) [Lookup]

Launch Daemons:ⓘ

[loaded] com.adobe.acc.installer.plist (Adobe Systems, Inc. - installed 2017-09-26) [Lookup]

[running] com.adobe.agsservice.plist (Adobe Systems, Inc. - installed 2018-01-25) [Lookup]

[loaded] com.adobe.fpsaud.plist (Adobe Systems, Inc. - installed 2017-12-14) [Lookup]

[loaded] com.google.keystone.daemon.plist (Google, Inc. - installed 2017-10-13) [Lookup]

[loaded] com.malwarebytes.HelperTool.plist (Malwarebytes Corporation - installed 2017-03-04) [Lookup]

[running] com.malwarebytes.mbam.rtprotection.daemon.plist (Malwarebytes Corporation - installed 2017-11-08) [Lookup]

[running] com.malwarebytes.mbam.settings.daemon.plist (Malwarebytes Corporation - installed 2017-11-08) [Lookup]

[loaded] com.microsoft.autoupdate.helper.plist (Microsoft Corporation - installed 2018-01-25) [Lookup]

[loaded] com.microsoft.office.licensingV2.helper.plist (Microsoft Corporation - installed 2017-12-05) [Lookup]

User Launch Agents:ⓘ

[loaded] com.adobe.AAM.Updater-1.0.plist (Adobe Systems, Inc. - installed 2016-11-25) [Lookup]

[loaded] com.adobe.ARM.[...].plist (? 5c76f5f6 1c9bb8a9 - installed 2015-10-14) [Lookup]

[loaded] com.adobe.GC.Invoker-1.0.plist (Adobe Systems, Inc. - installed 2018-01-26) [Lookup]

[loaded] com.dropbox.DropboxMacUpdate.agent.plist (Dropbox, Inc. - installed 2017-08-10) [Lookup]

User Login Items:ⓘ

iTunesHelper Application (Apple, Inc. - installed 2018-01-23)

(/Applications/iTunes.app/Contents/MacOS/iTunesHelper.app)

Dropbox Application

(/Applications/Dropbox.app)

Mail Application - Hidden

(/Applications/Mail.app)

1Password Helper URL SMLoginItem - Hidden (Apple, Inc. - installed 2018-01-18)

(/Applications/1Password.app/Contents/Library/LoginItems/2BUA8C4S2C.com.agilebi ts.onepassword-osx-helper.app)

1Password Helper URL SMLoginItem - Hidden (Apple, Inc. - installed 2017-12-22)

(/Volumes/Backup/Backups.backupdb/[redacted]'s iMac/2017-12-26-203435/iMac HD/Applications/1Password.app/Contents/Library/LoginItems/2BUA8C4S2C.com.agileb its.onepassword-osx-helper.app)

Internet Plug-ins:ⓘ

AdobeAAMDetect: 3.0.0.0 (installed 2017-09-26) [Lookup]

FlashPlayer-10.6: 28.0.0.137 (installed 2018-01-10) [Lookup]

QuickTime Plugin: 7.7.3 (installed 2018-01-19)

AdobePDFViewerNPAPI: 10.1.16 (installed 2015-10-14) [Lookup]

AdobePDFViewer: 10.1.16 (installed 2015-10-14) [Lookup]

Flash Player: 28.0.0.137 (installed 2018-01-10) [Lookup]

OfficeLiveBrowserPlugin: 12.3.6 (installed 2014-02-05) [Lookup]

PepperFlashPlayer: 28.0.0.137 (installed 2018-01-09) [Lookup]

Safari Extensions:ⓘ

[not loaded] Adblock Plus - Eyeo GmbH - https://adblockplus.org/ (installed 2016-12-22)

[not loaded] WOT - WOT Services Ltd - http://www.mywot.com/ (installed 2016-04-22)

[enabled] Facebook Cleaner - Sonny Fazio - http://sonstermedia.com (installed 2014-03-15)

[enabled] 1Password - AgileBits - https://agilebits.com/onepassword (installed 2017-12-27)

3rd Party Preference Panes:ⓘ

Flash Player (installed 2017-12-14) [Lookup]

Time Machine:ⓘ

Skip System Files: NO

Mobile backups: OFF

Auto backup: YES

Volumes being backed up:

Macintosh HD: Disk size: 1.03 TB Disk used: 214.30 GB

Photos: Disk size: 999.86 GB Disk used: 100.21 GB

Destinations:

Backup [Local]

Total size: 999.86 GB

Total number of backups: 41

Oldest backup: 12/26/17, 8:34 PM

Last backup: 2/5/18, 9:20 PM

Size of backup disk: Adequate

Backup size 999.86 GB > (Disk used 314.51 GB X 3)

Top Processes by CPU:ⓘ

4% mds_stores

4% kernel_task

3% WindowServer

2% RTProtectionDaemon

2% Adobe CEF Helper

Top Processes by Memory:ⓘ

1.01 GB kernel_task

506 MB mds_stores

164 MB Adobe CEF Helper

157 MB identityservicesd

148 MB Dropbox

Top Processes by Network Use:ⓘ

Input Output Process name

27 MB 8 MB mDNSResponder

329 KB 220 KB netbiosd

63 KB 52 KB Dropbox

42 KB 47 KB apsd

23 KB 6 KB cloudd

Top Processes by Energy Use:ⓘ

4.78 WindowServer

3.40 mds

2.62 mdworker

2.60 mdworker

Virtual Memory Information:ⓘ

2.44 GB Available RAM

26 MB Free RAM

5.56 GB Used RAM

2.42 GB Cached files

453 MB Swap Used

Software installs (last 30 days):ⓘ

Adobe Flash Player: (installed 2018-01-09)

Adobe Pepper Flash Player: (installed 2018-01-09)

Adobe Flash Player: (installed 2018-01-10)

Universal Translator: 2.0.1 (installed 2018-01-10)

Translatium: 7.8.1 (installed 2018-01-10)

1Password: 6.8.6 (installed 2018-01-18)

Microsoft PowerPoint for Mac: (installed 2018-01-19)

Microsoft Outlook for Mac: (installed 2018-01-19)

Microsoft Excel for Mac: (installed 2018-01-19)

Microsoft OneNote for Mac: (installed 2018-01-19)

Microsoft Word for Mac: (installed 2018-01-19)

Banktivity: 6.3 (installed 2018-01-19)

Microsoft AutoUpdate: (installed 2018-01-25)

Battery Monitor: 2.4.3 (installed 2018-01-26)

Microsoft PowerPoint for Mac: (installed 2018-01-26)

Microsoft Word for Mac: (installed 2018-01-26)

OneDrive: 17.3.7294 (installed 2018-02-03)

Install information may not be complete.

Diagnostics Events (last 3 days for minor events):ⓘ

2018-02-04 12:14:09 SecurityAgent Crash [Open]

Cause: objc_msgSend() selector name: setResult:

Feb 5, 2018 7:52 PM in response to Philly_Phan

FWIW, Adobe and Microsoft have different programmers. Not necessarily equally competent. I do know the latest version of Excel has problems so users are downgrading to an earlier version.

It's just a difference in coding I imagine between the companies.

Philly_Phan Author

Level 7

20,737 points

Feb 5, 2018 7:59 PM in response to CountryGirl56

CountryGirl56 wrote:

FWIW, Adobe and Microsoft have different programmers. Not necessarily equally competent. I do know the latest version of Excel has problems so users are downgrading to an earlier version.

It's just a difference in coding I imagine between the apps.

I don't dispute any of that but why is it that the old iMac and the MBP have CONSISTENT startup times with Word but the new iMac has the ridiculous startup time for the first startup? Can't blame that on the MS programmers.

I also use Excel and haven't (yet) seen any problems with it but a quick check just now shows the same strange startup issues as Word: 25 seconds the first startup after Logon (and also after using Photoshop) and five seconds thereafter.

Philly_Phan Author

Level 7

20,737 points

Feb 5, 2018 8:17 PM in response to rkaufmann87

Here is Adobe's requirements for Photoshop:

macOS

Multicore Intel processor with 64-bit support
macOS version 10.13 (High Sierra), macOS version 10.12 (Sierra), or Mac OS X version 10.11 (El Capitan)
2 GB or more of RAM (8 GB recommended)
4 GB or more of available hard-disk space for installation; additional free space required during installation (cannot install on a volume that uses a case-sensitive file system)
1024 x 768 display (1280x800 recommended) with 16-bit color and 512 MB or more of dedicated VRAM; 2 GB is recommended*
OpenGL 2.0-capable system
Internet connection and registration are necessary for required software activation, membership validation, and access to online services.**

Feb 5, 2018 8:23 PM in response to Philly_Phan

Philly_Phan wrote:

Actually the MBP is HDD and the new iMac is Fusion. Neither one is pure SSD.

You should let Apple know they made a Late-2013 MBP with an HDD by mistake.

https://everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook_pro/specs/macbook-pro-core-i5-2.4-13- late-2013-retina-display-specs.html

Philly_Phan Author

Level 7

20,737 points

Feb 6, 2018 7:58 AM in response to Philly_Phan

This is getting weirder and weirder. I went to my wife's logon and everything worked just dandy. I went back to my logon and this issue is now GONE! The only logical conclusion is that somehow the MacOS and/or the Word application learned something about the other. I'm outa here.

Philly_Phan Author

Level 7

20,737 points

Feb 6, 2018 8:43 AM in response to MichelPM

MichelPM wrote:

Been a Mac and Adobe PS user for 25 years!

Peanuts.

MichelPM wrote:

Photoshop and Lightroom NEED SCADS of RAM...

Adobe disagrees but what do they know? On top of that, my problem was with Word. Lightroom and Photoshop run like scalded dogs. The following is a C&P from Adobe's PS recommendations. Your PS will run better if you upgrade to at least El Capitan.

macOS

Multicore Intel processor with 64-bit support
macOS version 10.13 (High Sierra), macOS version 10.12 (Sierra), or Mac OS X version 10.11 (El Capitan)
2 GB or more of RAM (8 GB recommended)
4 GB or more of available hard-disk space for installation; additional free space required during installation (cannot install on a volume that uses a case-sensitive file system)
1024 x 768 display (1280x800 recommended) with 16-bit color and 512 MB or more of dedicated VRAM; 2 GB is recommended*
OpenGL 2.0-capable system
Internet connection and registration are necessary for required software activation, membership validation, and access to online services.**

For the record, the PSD files for the pics below are over 800MB each. They're samples of the pictures that I took of Buzz Aldrin last year.

Csound1

Level 9

60,063 points

Feb 6, 2018 9:40 AM in response to Philly_Phan

It became a necessity for me, I substituted Macs for traditional outboard midi triggers in the shows I produced because they took up less space, cost less and could do more things if needed. The problem is that 0.3 seconds is a very long time to wait during your show, the only thing that can be guaranteed is that it will take place at the most obvious moment leaving the talent pulling faces at the crew instead of starting the next song on the list. I was paid to avoid those moments. Over time I added wireless frequency co-ordination to there task list but never assigned 2 simultaneous tasks to one machine, the client paid for the extras.

My biggest audience was a tv broadcast that had (I am told) 734 million at the receiving end, thats a lot of people to p off at the same time. 🙂

Philly_Phan Author

Level 7

20,737 points

Feb 6, 2018 9:51 AM in response to Csound1

For your usage it makes sense. My disagreement is with Michel, who alleges that it will solve my Photoshop problem even though I'm not having a Photoshop problem! I'm retired with no pension, living off my savings. I'll spend money for things that I need and things that I want. I'm not going to throw it away for things that provide me no benefit.

734 million? That's nearly 10% of the world's population!

Csound1

Level 9

60,063 points

Feb 6, 2018 9:55 AM in response to Philly_Phan

I produced the worldwide broadcast for Obama's acceptance speech back in 08, I guess it was popular.😮

It was also my last production, I retired (except for pro bono local theater) immediately afterward.

Philly_Phan Author

Level 7

20,737 points

Feb 6, 2018 10:00 AM in response to Csound1

Csound1 wrote:

😮I retired (except for pro bono local theater) immediately afterward.

That's not work. It's a hobby. My retirement hobby is giving Apollo-11 presentations at middle schools around the area.

Feb 5, 2018 8:28 PM in response to Philly_Phan

Duplicate. Silly forum.

Feb 5, 2018 9:10 PM in response to Philly_Phan

Philly_Phan wrote:

One thing that's bothering me is that this first startup is so exceptionally long.

You can let Apple know it bothers you here…

Feedback - macOS - Apple

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New iMac slow as molasses