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Calibrate Retina 5k iMac 2017 for photography

Any photographers out there using the Retina 5k iMac (2017) for photography?


I was planning to get one of the Mac Pro refurbs along with either an Eizo or NEC monitor because my 2009 iMac was getting really slow, but I was waiting because the two together was going to be an expensive purchase. My husband, not knowing my plans, surprised me with an iMac Retina 5k last month. It's an awesome machine, but I'm having the hardest time getting the color right for photo editing and printing (with the Canon Pixma Pro-100).


I'm using the X-Rite i1 Display Pro. I have two 2009 iMacs (one at work and one at home) calibrated with this device, and I haven't had any issues, and I send my edited photos to a lot of places for printing. I can't seem to get the Retina 5k on board though.


Any tips from the pros out there?


My i1 Display Pro calibration settings:

Display Type: GB-LED (as suggested by X-Rite for the newer Retina 5k models)

White Point: I've tried both D50 and D65 (D65 seems to get it the closest)

Luminance: Suggested is 120, but it was too bright, so I'm all the way down to 40 (just one notch on the brightness) to try to match my prints.

Gamma: 2.2 (I've tried both 2.2 and 1.8)


I've disabled the ADC (as suggested), and I turned off the option to automatically adjust the brightness. I edit in a dark or almost dark (if during the day) room.


I'm not sure if I've missed a setting in Photoshop (I'm using the sRGB color space) or if it's something with the calibration. I'm using the proper Canon profiles for the Canon papers with my printer (and I've tried some other papers and their profiles). I'm having Photoshop do the color management (as suggested).


Any pro photographers have any suggestions for getting something suitable for editing and being able to print photo prints in-house that are relatively close?

Thanks for the help!

iMac with Retina 5K display, iOS 10.1, 2017 Model

Posted on Sep 19, 2018 6:34 AM

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Question marked as Best reply

Posted on Sep 20, 2018 12:30 PM

Hello Debbie,


Bad luck for you. This is a topic I can talk about until I pass out. 😀


It's difficult to answer some of your questions without traveling to the Geek home world. But I get the impression you'll understand this.

Since I don't have something like an Eizo, should I be using Adobe RGB since it's a bigger color space than sRGB? That's another issue. I've always used sRGB on my other machines and have never had issues with my commercial printing. It's only now with this new machine that I'm having issues.

This won't be a short answer since it can't make sense in just a paragraph or so.


Any RGB space you want to use will do. It's all a matter of whether or not the vendor understands how to translate your working space properly. Doesn't matter if it's sRGB or all the way out to Wide Gamut RGB. sRGB is the default color space for web images for no reason other than even the cheapest monitor should be able to display that range of color. But no matter which one you settle on, the most important thing you can do for color management is an accurate monitor profile. Any reliance on the provided canned profiles is a 100% waste of any user's time. But, you already know that and are trying to get to a proper calibration.


Setting up a monitor is a two step process. Calibration, then profiling. Calibration is setting your color temperature (such as 5000K/D50), black point, brightness and gain. Not many packages do the last (EIZO does). Once the calibration is done, a profile is created based on those settings. What finally gets saved is what users only call a profile, but it also contains the calibration LUT (Look Up Table) that gets loaded to the graphics hardware when you choose it.


Many years ago, it was considered a very bad idea to use your monitor profile as your working RGB space. It made sense since the gamut of CRTs and early flat screen LED monitors weren't very good. They couldn't even approach Adobe RGB. Any newer, wide gamut monitor throws that old maxim out the window.


The very basics of color management: L*a*b* is everything we can see. This is the fixed model all color management is based on. The current being CIE Lab. It's usually visualized as a sphere. All possible color from white at the top to black at the bottom, surrounded by all fully saturated primary colors reducing to fully desaturated gray down the middle.

User uploaded file

Any RGB space is a chunk of L*a*b*. Each RGB space represents what colors within L*a*b* a device can capture/print/display. I randomly grabbed a 3D model of something (I think it's Adobe RGB) and stuck it in this tristimulus. It's not a very accurate way to view this, but gives you the idea.

User uploaded file

That's how your color management system knows where the RGB values of that particular space line up in L*a*b*.


So, what does that have to do with which color space to use in Photoshop? I'll explain that by why I use my monitor profile as my working RGB color space. Clipping is the main word here. That's when the color in L*a*b* can't be displayed on your monitor. It's in an area outside or your monitor's gamut and color range.


This can be a bad way to work on images. Especially if your working space is much larger than your monitor's profile. Such as, you have what looks like the saturated red you want on a shirt. But, you pushed the heck out of the saturation levels, not realizing you were well beyond the monitor's display limit (clipped). Sometime in the future, you purchase a new monitor that will likely have an even better gamut and color range. You open the image and that red shirt suddenly looks crazy red. What's wrong? Nothing, really. It always was that color, you just couldn't view it before.


Because of that, I limit my working space to what my monitor can actually display. That RGB space is just as valid as any other space. L*a*b* knows where the colors fit the same as it does for sRGB, Adobe RGB, or any other RGB space. And since it's a wide gamut display, that's plenty of color to work with.


Here's some examples. This is my monitor's space vs. Wide Gamut RGB. As you can see, it's not a good idea to use this one as a general working space. It goes way out past my monitor's entire range, which means you can wildly oversaturate all of your images and not know it since you can't view those colors.


User uploaded file


Here's my monitor again, but against Adobe RGB. You can see in front that Adobe RGB has more range than the EIZO can display in some cyans, blues and magentas. But since my working space stops at my monitor's profile, I can't accidentally push color out that far. And honestly, what I can use are already eye popping bright colors. I don't need the rest. On the other end, you can see how much red, yellows, oranges and greens I'd be cheating myself out of if I used Adobe RGB as my working space. The ability is there, but I'd be limited to the smaller range in those colors.


User uploaded file


Using sRGB is seriously crippling yourself. Here's Adobe RGB vs. sRGB. It's obvious how small it is compared to what you could be using.


User uploaded file


I my opinion, the new iMac's profile is what you should use as your working color space in Photoshop. Get the maximum usage out of your panel's gamut and color range without worrying about using over saturated color you can't see.


Since I can't see your monitor or ambient lighting conditions, I can't know how bright a luminance of 40 looks to you. Just be aware the lower you go, the more color saturation you lose. I use 80 not just because it's the default, but it gives me a midway point between paper white for CMYK work, and a brighter, more saturated screen for RGB work.


Side note, when printing as use the Colorimetric rendering intent. Too long to explain why. Just trust me it's far superior to Perceptual.

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Question marked as Best reply

Sep 20, 2018 12:30 PM in response to dp_sc

Hello Debbie,


Bad luck for you. This is a topic I can talk about until I pass out. 😀


It's difficult to answer some of your questions without traveling to the Geek home world. But I get the impression you'll understand this.

Since I don't have something like an Eizo, should I be using Adobe RGB since it's a bigger color space than sRGB? That's another issue. I've always used sRGB on my other machines and have never had issues with my commercial printing. It's only now with this new machine that I'm having issues.

This won't be a short answer since it can't make sense in just a paragraph or so.


Any RGB space you want to use will do. It's all a matter of whether or not the vendor understands how to translate your working space properly. Doesn't matter if it's sRGB or all the way out to Wide Gamut RGB. sRGB is the default color space for web images for no reason other than even the cheapest monitor should be able to display that range of color. But no matter which one you settle on, the most important thing you can do for color management is an accurate monitor profile. Any reliance on the provided canned profiles is a 100% waste of any user's time. But, you already know that and are trying to get to a proper calibration.


Setting up a monitor is a two step process. Calibration, then profiling. Calibration is setting your color temperature (such as 5000K/D50), black point, brightness and gain. Not many packages do the last (EIZO does). Once the calibration is done, a profile is created based on those settings. What finally gets saved is what users only call a profile, but it also contains the calibration LUT (Look Up Table) that gets loaded to the graphics hardware when you choose it.


Many years ago, it was considered a very bad idea to use your monitor profile as your working RGB space. It made sense since the gamut of CRTs and early flat screen LED monitors weren't very good. They couldn't even approach Adobe RGB. Any newer, wide gamut monitor throws that old maxim out the window.


The very basics of color management: L*a*b* is everything we can see. This is the fixed model all color management is based on. The current being CIE Lab. It's usually visualized as a sphere. All possible color from white at the top to black at the bottom, surrounded by all fully saturated primary colors reducing to fully desaturated gray down the middle.

User uploaded file

Any RGB space is a chunk of L*a*b*. Each RGB space represents what colors within L*a*b* a device can capture/print/display. I randomly grabbed a 3D model of something (I think it's Adobe RGB) and stuck it in this tristimulus. It's not a very accurate way to view this, but gives you the idea.

User uploaded file

That's how your color management system knows where the RGB values of that particular space line up in L*a*b*.


So, what does that have to do with which color space to use in Photoshop? I'll explain that by why I use my monitor profile as my working RGB color space. Clipping is the main word here. That's when the color in L*a*b* can't be displayed on your monitor. It's in an area outside or your monitor's gamut and color range.


This can be a bad way to work on images. Especially if your working space is much larger than your monitor's profile. Such as, you have what looks like the saturated red you want on a shirt. But, you pushed the heck out of the saturation levels, not realizing you were well beyond the monitor's display limit (clipped). Sometime in the future, you purchase a new monitor that will likely have an even better gamut and color range. You open the image and that red shirt suddenly looks crazy red. What's wrong? Nothing, really. It always was that color, you just couldn't view it before.


Because of that, I limit my working space to what my monitor can actually display. That RGB space is just as valid as any other space. L*a*b* knows where the colors fit the same as it does for sRGB, Adobe RGB, or any other RGB space. And since it's a wide gamut display, that's plenty of color to work with.


Here's some examples. This is my monitor's space vs. Wide Gamut RGB. As you can see, it's not a good idea to use this one as a general working space. It goes way out past my monitor's entire range, which means you can wildly oversaturate all of your images and not know it since you can't view those colors.


User uploaded file


Here's my monitor again, but against Adobe RGB. You can see in front that Adobe RGB has more range than the EIZO can display in some cyans, blues and magentas. But since my working space stops at my monitor's profile, I can't accidentally push color out that far. And honestly, what I can use are already eye popping bright colors. I don't need the rest. On the other end, you can see how much red, yellows, oranges and greens I'd be cheating myself out of if I used Adobe RGB as my working space. The ability is there, but I'd be limited to the smaller range in those colors.


User uploaded file


Using sRGB is seriously crippling yourself. Here's Adobe RGB vs. sRGB. It's obvious how small it is compared to what you could be using.


User uploaded file


I my opinion, the new iMac's profile is what you should use as your working color space in Photoshop. Get the maximum usage out of your panel's gamut and color range without worrying about using over saturated color you can't see.


Since I can't see your monitor or ambient lighting conditions, I can't know how bright a luminance of 40 looks to you. Just be aware the lower you go, the more color saturation you lose. I use 80 not just because it's the default, but it gives me a midway point between paper white for CMYK work, and a brighter, more saturated screen for RGB work.


Side note, when printing as use the Colorimetric rendering intent. Too long to explain why. Just trust me it's far superior to Perceptual.

Sep 20, 2018 8:15 AM in response to dp_sc

You want to use a white point of D50 (5000K). That's neutral gray. Not yellow (such as 4000K), and not the godawful bright blue of D65 (6500K). As a quick note, the D stands for Daylight.


I know how the idiotic 6500K became the default, but it's too long a story to get into. Suffice to say, there's only a short time during the day - early sunrise in winter - when general lighting outside really does look that blue. The rest of the time, typical midday sunlight throughout most of the world is 5200K. You can easily see that by displaying a sunlit image on a 6500K monitor and then look outside on a sunlit day. It can't be any more obvious how ridiculously blue your monitor is in comparison.


You can change an image on neutral monitor to match any color temperature you want it to look like. It's impossible to make a 6500K monitor look like anything but blue.


The standard in the printing industry is 5000K, 1.8 gamma. Professional color viewing booths are also 5000K. Neutral lighting throughout the entire process. The reason for a 1.8 gamma is you can't print anything as dense as 2.2. No paper will hold that much ink without rippling.


You're in too dark of a room if you need to drop the luminance all the way to 40 for comfortable viewing. Standard is 80. When you get as low as 40, you're losing a lot of color saturation. Worse, you're using sRGB, which is the smallest color space. All you're doing with that is severely clipping off richer color you could be using. Personally, I use the monitor profile of my EIZO CG243W as my working space. It's a bit shorter than some colors in Adobe RGB, but larger in most of them. It makes no sense to me to use Adobe RGB and cheat myself out of color the monitor can display.


Here's the main thing with ColorSync (the Windows color management system works the same way). When you print, it always tries to match the output to the monitor profile. This is what you're actually viewing, so is what it tries to make the print look like. This is also what Photoshop does. No matter what working RGB space you choose in its preferences, that is translated to the device you're looking at. So the color you're viewing is always your monitor's profile.


If your print color is that far off, then either the paper you're using is an incorrect match, or the supplied profiles are junk. I do see you're using Canon papers with your Canon printer, but even then, you must use the exact paper the profile is for. Not just any Canon branded paper. This is true of any paper from any vendor. Such as, you can use Epson paper if you want, but then you must have a profile created for that paper to be used on that printer, or you'll never get a useful print.

Sep 20, 2018 8:15 AM in response to Kurt Lang

Hi Kurt,


Thank you for the very detailed reply! I will try the settings you suggest. It's hard to find a concrete suggestion online because there are so many variations. It has been a lot of trial and error.


I have an iMac Retina 5k (2017). Since I don't have something like an Eizo, should I be using Adobe RGB since it's a bigger color space than sRGB? That's another issue. The suggestions online seem to be all over the place on that, so I have no idea what to select. I've always used sRGB on my other machines and have never had issues with my commercial printing. It's only now with this new machine that I'm having issues.


I do use the specific Canon profiles, but I think I'm missing some little piece because I haven't been able to get them exactly right. Close, but not right.


The 40 was just to get the monitor as close to the paper as possible. My old iMac is set much higher than that, but this one is SO much brighter. It makes me wonder if maybe there's an issue with it.


Thanks again. I'm going to try your suggested settings tomorrow and see what happens.


Have a great day!

Debbie

Sep 24, 2018 6:38 AM in response to Kurt Lang

Thank you so much for the explanation, Kurt! I spent a LOT more time reading this weekend. I probably should have done that long before now, but I honestly never had an issue with my printing or anything before, so I never took the time to understand much beyond the basics of what I needed to know.


I did also read about Colorimetric vs. Perceptual and came to the same conclusion.


This was certainly easier when I was sending my prints to a lab for printing than printing on my own, but I think it will be better in the long run if I can print in-house.


I did some test prints this weekend and the results were much better than before.


The low luminance thing is weird to me. That setting is basically the brightness level clicked up once on the monitor, and the difference between 0 and 1 is astounding! I have both my old and new iMacs sitting side by side at the moment and it's very odd just how different the brightness levels are. My old iMac was set to a much higher luminance. I forget (and I've already removed a lot of the software), but it was somewhere between 80 and 120.


Thank you again for all the help!

Calibrate Retina 5k iMac 2017 for photography

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