Messages with Jabber - Chat History Not Saved and Not Imported

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Level 1

79 points

Messages with Jabber - Chat History Not Saved and Not Imported

I have a user that I just upgraded to a brand new Macbook Air running High Sierra. We did a Time Machine backup and restore to keep the migration very easy. Everything went perfect with the Time Machine migration, the new machine is a 1:1 of the old, with one exception.

We use Messages to connect to an internal Jabber server. It works fine for all of our other users, myself included. Since the upgrade, my user cannot see the past Chat Log of all previous Jabber messages. It also does not save any new chat messages.

She can send me a Jabber message, close Messages, open it back up, and the message she just sent me does not appear in her chat log or history. It always shows up blank with the only option on the Messages interface being "New Message".

So it's a two fold problem. She can't see any of her years worth of previous Jabber messages (she can see these properly on her old laptop). I've tried to recopy ~/Library/Messages/* to the new computer (even though Time Machine already did it for her). That still doesn't show her past Jabber messages.

And as stated above the other side of the problem is that any new Jabber messages aren't saved on the new laptop. In the Messages settings, "Save history when conversations are closed" is checked, and "Keep Messages Forever" is elected.

The only other piece of the puzzle is that her old Macbook Air was running Mavericks and she jumped from 10.9 to High Sierra. However even in Mavericks it was still "Messages" (not iChat) so it's not like she was going from one messaging application to another.

Any ideas?

Posted on Oct 17, 2018 10:03 AM

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Answer 1

Top-ranking reply

Ralph-Johns-UK

Level 9

76,811 points

Oct 17, 2018 11:47 AM in response to plochner

Hi,

In a Finder window use the Go Menu > Go to folder and enter ~/Library/Messages in the dialogue box.

See Resolve issues caused by changing the permissions of items in your home folder - Apple Support

From the instructions in the link select an item (chat.db) from the list in the folder.

Add an item between 3 and 4:-

Highlight the Shortname of the Mac User Account

Then Unlock the item and see if the phrase "Make shortname (me) the Owner" is in dark text.

You will notice the wording changes for single files.

If it is dark then it is not Owned by the Mac User account.

Select the phrase to change it.

Repeat for the other two .db items.

If this does not work follow the whole set of instructions in the Link including the number 7.

7:47 pm Wednesday; October 17, 2018

 iMac 2.5Ghz i5 2011 (Sierra)
 G4/1GhzDual MDD (Leopard 10.5.8)
 MacBookPro 2Gb (Snow Leopard 10.6.8)
 MacBookPro 15" 2016 (High Sierra 10.13.x)
 Mac OS X (10.6.8),
 iPhone 6 iOS 11.x and an iPad (2)

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Answer 2

Oct 18, 2018 12:01 PM in response to plochner

HI,

Messages puts iMessages in the database (.db items).

The info of the messages is added by the app directly to those files and over time they generally get bigger.

They can be opened in TextEdit where they are mostly unreadable but it is possible to spot the messages in the info in the files.

To be written to the files the Mac User must have Permissions and Ownership of not only the files but the holding Folders as well.

In this case that is Hard Drive Name/Users/ShortnameOfAccount/Library/Messages shortened to ~/Library/Messages.

However as new files have been created it does suggest that the User does have the required Ownership and Permissions.

Before the iCloud Sync option in macOS 10.13.5 and iOS 11.4 you could also engage "Save chats on close".

Close tends to mean when you Quit the app. In earlier version it was also when you Dismissed a chat from view by mousing over the Side Bar in Messages and selecting the "X" that showed up. Later versions this action goes to Delete with little option but confirm or accept.

Those chats are saved in ~/Library/Containers/com.apple.iChat/Data/Library/Messages/Archive

This is where Jabber (now) and previously AIM, Yahoo and Bonjour chats went as it (the Archive folder) is a hangover from iChat.

In the macOS versions up to Mojave it was possible to select Save on Close and iMessages option Sync via iCloud in the in the Messages > Preferences > Accounts pane.

So at your User's High Sierra version the two can be selected and Jabber Chats saved to the Archive folder rather than the Chat.DB items.

I suspect that in the Upgrade that the setting for Save on Close is not active even though it may have been before the upgrade and why it has not been looked at again.

NOTE

Adding Jabber accounts in High Sierra.

IF you want to Add GoogleTalk then add it in Messages "First" and then in System Preferences > Internet Accounts activate the Mail option if you want it to use both. Basically Google use two different servers and this way it gets accepted.

If you Add Google either in Mail or Internet Accounts then activating the Messages option "Second" as it were does not work.

This only works to macOS 10.13.4 for certain.

It then moves the to method used in Mojave where it is Added in Internet Account as an "Other" account then Messages and choosing the only remaining option of Jabber.

I must admit to failing to manage to re-add my GoogleTalk account in macOS 10.13.5 and 6 after I deleted it for a test.

(Jabber is not active in Mojave going the way of AIM and Bonjour)

8:01 pm Thursday; October 18, 2018

 iMac 2.5Ghz i5 2011 (Sierra)
 G4/1GhzDual MDD (Leopard 10.5.8)
 MacBookPro 2Gb (Snow Leopard 10.6.8)
 MacBookPro 15" 2016 (High Sierra 10.13.x)
 Mac OS X (10.6.8),
 iPhone 6 iOS 11.x and an iPad (2)

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Answer 3

plochner Author

Level 1

79 points

Oct 17, 2018 12:10 PM in response to Ralph-Johns-UK

Hi Ralph, I was hoping you'd take a look at this! I've seen you on many a Messages thread!

The user is currently in a meeting so I can't try that exact advice for a little bit, however as part of the troubleshooting, I did delete the entire ~/Library/Messages folder in an effort to troubleshoot the "not saving any messages" part of the problem. I have a backup on the old laptop so I'm not worried about losing anything.

After the folder deletion, I opened up Messages and saw that it immediately recreated a new ~/Library/Messages folder, added the .db files to it, so I sent a few test messages. When I quit and reopened Messages, those test messages still weren't archived and shown to me.

So the user appears to have the right permissions to the folder as it's being recreated properly, the contents of that folder are being recreated with today's date and time, but those test messages don't exist when I relaunch Messages. What I'm getting at is that even if I didn't want to retrieve my old Jabber messages, even with a fresh and new ~\Library\Messages folder being created, I still can't save any current Jabber messages.

Anyway I'll wait until the user is out of the meeting and see if there's any permission related problems with that folder. I've done a ton of these Time Machine old-machine to new-machine migrations and none of them have had a problem like this so it's unusual behavior.

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Answer 4

plochner Author

Level 1

79 points

Oct 18, 2018 1:01 PM in response to Ralph-Johns-UK

Your final comment about Jabber not being acting in Mojave may have just changed the scope of this problem entirely!

We don't use GoogleTalk for our Jabber server - we use Openfire and only use it for internal communication - but if we lose the ability to connect to it on new laptops and machines we upgrade to Mojave, then getting this user's chat history is going to be a bandaid that will only last until we press the Mojave upgrade button.

Anyway I still need to hook up with the user to continue troubleshooting. I do find it unusual that everything in the Time Machine backup was a flawless 1:1 except for this silly Jabber history. I'll keep you informed and I truly appreciate your attention to this - most often posting on the Apple forums gets, well lets say helpful-minded but less helpful responses.

On a side note, I am not sure if you were the person that mentioned in a thread somewhere about Jabber logins not being saved in the Keychain on Sierra and High Sierra no matter what you try, unless you alter the Kerychain "location" for the jabber keychain-password to (case sensitive): Jabber

That particular piece of info drove us absolutely insane until we figured it out!

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Answer 5

Oct 18, 2018 1:24 PM in response to plochner

Hi,

I had not heard of the Side Note part.

I will try that in 10.13.6 and Mojave.

9:24 pm Thursday; October 18, 2018

 iMac 2.5Ghz i5 2011 (Sierra)
 G4/1GhzDual MDD (Leopard 10.5.8)
 MacBookPro 2Gb (Snow Leopard 10.6.8)
 MacBookPro 15" 2016 (High Sierra 10.13.x)
 Mac OS X (10.6.8),
 iPhone 6 iOS 11.x and an iPad (2)

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Answer 6

plochner Author

Level 1

79 points

Oct 18, 2018 1:32 PM in response to Ralph-Johns-UK

When you say, "you'll try that in Mojave" - I thought you said Jabber doesn't work in Mojave? I have no Mojave machines to try it on.

Let me know if you need further instructions, but the bottom line is that Jabber logins in Sierra and High Sierra will never save your password for Jabber in your keychain. Every time your computer goes to sleep or gets powered on, Messages logging into Jabber will always ask you for your password no matter how many times you tell it to save it.

The fix is to go into the Keychain, find your saved Jabber credentials, double click the entry, erase whatever is written in "Where:" (usually com.apple.something), and put in simply Jabber case sensitive. Then save the changes in the Keychain utility, quit out of Messages, open it back up, and it'll ask you for your Jabber password once again except this time the "Add to Keychain" prompt will look different, and it'll actually add it properly.

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Answer 7

Oct 18, 2018 1:41 PM in response to plochner

HI,

I was at one time using GoogleTalk (a Jabber server) in High Sierra after I found out the method of Adding it as a separate Messages account in Messages before going back to the Google option in System Preferences > Internet Accounts to enable the Google entry that has appeared for Mail.

AS this seems to have changed in advanced of Mojave to separate out the Google Account which no longer has a Messages option to activate I was hoping your new info might allow me to get this to work again.

That said the AIM and Bonjour and Jabber Plugins that are hidden away on the System side of things fro the app are still there in Mojave so I was hoping if I can solve this for GoogleTalk in High Sierra it might be transferable to Mojave.

I appreciate the extra info about the Keychain.

9:41 pm Thursday; October 18, 2018

 iMac 2.5Ghz i5 2011 (Sierra)
 G4/1GhzDual MDD (Leopard 10.5.8)
 MacBookPro 2Gb (Snow Leopard 10.6.8)
 MacBookPro 15" 2016 (High Sierra 10.13.x)
 Mac OS X (10.6.8),
 iPhone 6 iOS 11.x and an iPad (2)

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Answer 8

Oct 19, 2018 12:07 PM in response to plochner

Hi,

The option is there but the process has changed (like many of the iChat things that have slowly disappeared from the app).

Without changing a setting for an Older Jabber ID I was able to enter it in System Preferences > Internet Accounts > Other > Messages account.

The ID was then visible in Messages and Messages needed the Restart for the Buddy List to appear and I was able to Login.

This was in macOS 10.13.6

In Mojave the Messages Menu option to add a Jabber account has disappeared.

In the Preferences > Accounts there is no List to be able to use the + icon to add an Account as per the long time way that came from iChat.

It seems that even the jabber option is Turned Off.

However in System Preferences > Internet accounts I have an option to Add Other Accounts but then there is no Messages option.

That said the GoogleTalk one shows as the Mac User account is a Migration of the account that is now the macOS 10.13.6 account on the other computer.

This account that I have labelled in System Preferences > Internet accounts as GoogleTalk and as a Messages Account, is not allowing me to enter the Google password, saying it cannot be verified.

I am going to have to boot up my older G4 tower running 10.8.5 and iChat 4 to check if Google are still allowing GoogleTalk logins.

8:07 pm Friday; October 19, 2018

 iMac 2.5Ghz i5 2011 (Sierra)
 G4/1GhzDual MDD (Leopard 10.5.8)
 MacBookPro 2Gb (Snow Leopard 10.6.8)
 MacBookPro 15" 2016 (High Sierra 10.13.x)
 Mac OS X (10.6.8),
 iPhone 6 iOS 11.x and an iPad (2)

Reply

Answer 9

Oct 19, 2018 12:17 PM in response to Ralph-Johns-UK

Late Extra.

OS 10.8.5 and iChat 4 can still login to Google so it appears it is not a change at their end.

As I have one Jabber account now successfully added in High Sierra I expect yours to work.

8:17 pm Friday; October 19, 2018

 iMac 2.5Ghz i5 2011 (Sierra)
 G4/1GhzDual MDD (Leopard 10.5.8)
 MacBookPro 2Gb (Snow Leopard 10.6.8)
 MacBookPro 15" 2016 (High Sierra 10.13.x)
 Mac OS X (10.6.8),
 iPhone 6 iOS 11.x and an iPad (2)

Reply

Answer 10

plochner Author

Level 1

79 points

Oct 19, 2018 12:47 PM in response to Ralph-Johns-UK

Thanks for the clarification Ralph. Just some clarification on my end:

In High Sierra, I can setup Messages.app to use my Openfire Jabber server (I do not use Google Talk) using Messages.app - Messages Menu - Add Jabber Account.

Doing this also adds it to System Preferences - Internet Accounts. That being said, I never have to use the System Preferences - Internet Accounts to add my Jabber server to Messages - I can do it all from within Messages.app.

All that being said, if in Mojave, I cannot add Jabber accounts from Messages.app or from Internet Accounts, that basically kills my use of my internal Jabber Server and I'll have to migrate to something else. I'm pretty sure all new Macs are now coming preinstalled with Mojave so as soon as I buy a replacement Mac for a user, they'll be unable to access our corporate Jabber server.

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Answer 11

Oct 19, 2018 1:04 PM in response to plochner

Hi,

I had not forgotten your were using your own in house Jabber server.

My Keychain as many Jabber accounts listed and all show the Where as "Jabber".

It is only the GoogleTalk server that seems to be the issue now.

It is unclear if Jabber will eventually be put back in Mojave as the plugins for the various account types are still in the system.

EDIT They are in Hard drive Name/Library/Messages

Bonjour, Aim and Jabber are still there

9:01 pm Friday; October 19, 2018

 iMac 2.5Ghz i5 2011 (Sierra)
 G4/1GhzDual MDD (Leopard 10.5.8)
 MacBookPro 2Gb (Snow Leopard 10.6.8)
 MacBookPro 15" 2016 (High Sierra 10.13.x)
 Mac OS X (10.6.8),
 iPhone 6 iOS 11.x and an iPad (2)

Reply

Answer 12

plochner Author

Level 1

79 points

Oct 19, 2018 1:19 PM in response to Ralph-Johns-UK

Eh, my guess is that it's gone for good. In my experience supporting Apple devices, it's pretty clear that Apple doesn't back track on that stuff. When it's gone, it's gone, and the users win or lose accordingly.

Either way if it's not in Mojave right now, I have to start planning for a Messages.app-less solution because we're going to run into that as soon as I replace a Mac with a brand new one.

On a similar note, I won't be surprised if Apple also gets rid of Active Directory integration sometime in the near future as only a small part of their user base uses Macs in a mixed Mac/PC corporate environment like we do. It's already a part of the OS that hasn't even seen a visual GUI change in 6+ years. IIRC the current High Sierra Directory Services app actually has buttons in it that don't do anything anymore, but they couldn't even bother to create a new GUI for it that removes them.

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Answer 13

Oct 19, 2018 2:20 PM in response to plochner

Hi,

I tend to think you are right mostly as because the general push seems to be more iOS like rather than a separate system.

This is despite the fact that iChat could do 4 way Video Chats in App and still manage 1-1 Video chats to PCs when AIM on PCs was compatible enough to do so. (ergo:- Messages could have done 1-1 video chats to FaceTime on an iPhone if they had wanted).

Whilst this is only one app the general sense is that everything is going that way.

10:20 pm Friday; October 19, 2018

 iMac 2.5Ghz i5 2011 (Sierra)
 G4/1GhzDual MDD (Leopard 10.5.8)
 MacBookPro 2Gb (Snow Leopard 10.6.8)
 MacBookPro 15" 2016 (High Sierra 10.13.x)
 Mac OS X (10.6.8),
 iPhone 6 iOS 11.x and an iPad (2)

Reply

Answer 14

plochner Author

Level 1

79 points

Oct 19, 2018 11:42 AM in response to Ralph-Johns-UK

In Mojave's Messages.app, do you still have in the "Messages" menu, the option to "Add Jabber Account"? Or did they take that out in Mojave?

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Messages with Jabber - Chat History Not Saved and Not Imported

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