Flash player

mbevan wrote:
Flash is becoming less of an issue with the rise of HTML5, specifically the Video and Audio components

When did flash become an issue? Oh, yes when Apple and the PR Cool-Aid Machine said it was.

HTML5 Video and Audio "support" is opening a huge can of worms. Codec War! Yes, the 90s are back. Those of us with some long-term memory will remember this. Other than the lack of bandwidth, the lack of a single well adopted codec meant video sucked on the internets. Flash allows for a unified ubiquitous solution. Add broadband, you get YouTube, Hulu, iPlayer, etc...

Now it's Theora , VP8 and h.264. Who will loose? Us. Video on the web is going back 10 years. Not to fear my friends. Adobe is committed to support all of these and Flash will continue to rule for a little while longer...

By the way one detail not mentioned is DRM. Big Content LOVES DRM. I don't think that's in the specs for HTML5 Video. Oops.

I didn't know having an opinion that differs from the herd is an attack. In my experience, Flash is garbage on a Mac and always has been.

+1

There's a reason I have flash-blockers on my Macs - Flash slows things down and causes instability. That's my experience

Tamara wrote:
In my experience, Flash is garbage on a Mac and always has been.

I respect your opinion(s). I just don't get why you guy use a blocker when you can just un-install the plugin altogether 🙂

Because the blocker gives you the ability to choose whether to play the content or not simply by clicking. So I get to decide whether I so want to view a specific item that I'm prepared to put up with Flash to do it.

On my iPad, I'm perfectly happy not to see the content at all

nick101 wrote:
On my iPad, I'm perfectly happy not to see the content at all

Nick, I guess then you don't visit any BBC sites, or The Times (and many other newspapers) site, ITV Player, Sports Results sites, etc. etc.
It's a pain.

I prefer to read news sites rather than watch videos.

elguapoloco wrote:
Now it's Theora , VP8 and h.264. Who will loose? Us. Video on the web is going back 10 years. Not to fear my friends. Adobe is committed to support all of these and Flash will continue to rule for a little while longer...

So we should avoid inovation and progress? Find one solution that kind of works and stick with it regradless of what else comes along? Just because change is sometimes painful?

That's up to you Tamara. Fortunately (or unfortunately) people are different and we don't all have the same needs or preferences.
There are basically three types of people here (on the Flash issue):
1) those who agree with anything Apple says and does, and don't see why missing a large chunk of important web-sites should be in any way inconvenient to a large number of users
2) those who support the Apple stance in principle, but are very much inconvenienced until the transition to HTML5 is made (if it is made)
3) those who vehemently disagree with Apple's lack of Flash on their mobile devices and who don't hold back on voicing their annoyance.
I am in category 2), and what annoys me about this whole debate from people like yourself, is the 'I have no need for Flash therefore there is no problem' type approach.
I'm surprised you don't want to watch video on your iPad. Shame really as it is rather good at it!

Message was edited by: igmackenzie

4) those who support the Apple stance, don't necessarily believe/support everything apple says, but are very happy to put up with the minor inconvenience of having to find alternative sites to view video in exchange for not having to put up with flash, and who have had it blocked on all their macs and pcs for as long as flash blockers for firefox have existed...

You're still in 'I have no need for Flash therefore there is no problem' type.
However, if I sent you a (long) list of the sites I am missing out on, then you'll be able to send me a list of alternatives then. Thanks for that. I would really appreciate it.

so where do people fit that were blocking or removing flash prior to Mr jobs stand on it was publicized? Are we time travelling Apple fanatics from the future?

Some people are smart enough to come up with their own conclusions prior to a big name making the same arguments in open letters or even prior to the iPhone 3 years ago.

Plese don't group everyone into one bucket. Yes there are those that will repeat everything he says without thought. But there are those that thought it was about time somebody bigger and with more weight to throw around made a stand.

Jason

I'm not grouping everyone into one bucket.
You are clearly in the group that has no need for Flash. Great, good for you. I recognise your right to that opinion and wouldn't try to change it.
My point has always been that what is needed in these discussion is a recognition that some people suffer considerable inconvenience by not having Flash. There is no point, IMO, to use the 'Flash is garbage' type approach to make the case for not having it on Apple mobile devices.
What disappoints me about the endless discussions on Flash on these forums is that we - at least most - of us are reasonable people with similar interests. I'm sure if we all went to the pub for a few pints we would get on really well. Given that, why is there constant attacks, inability to see others point of view, arguments, personal attacks, etc.
It's only software!

"You're still in 'I have no need for Flash therefore there is no problem' type."

You didnt offer that as an option - the nearest would have been category 1, which implied I accept blindly what Steve Jobs says.

and no, I wont find alternative sites for you - I find alternatives for what interests me.

your options are to:
replace your ipad with something that supports flash, or find alternative websites.

you may be right that it is (for you) inconvenient, but you have chosen a platform that does not, and I hope will not support flash.

Meg St._Clair wrote:
So we should avoid inovation and progress?

What innovation and progress? Video on the web has been working for years. So adding the Video tag to the HTML specs is more catch up than progress. But as it stands the lack of a common codec complicates things, I think we can all agree on that point.

I develop for Flash which has an average release cycle of 18 month, not 10 years. And a new version of the Flash player reaches market maturity in less than a year. If HTML5 is meant to compete with Flash it needs to step up its game. I am all for change, progress, innovation and competition.

Feel free to list the innovations in HTML5 that can reach at least 90% of the web users and that weren't done before in Flash of course 🙂