itunes account hacked

This just happened to me today. $364 worth of apps. I called my banked cancelled the card. the sad part is Apple is not helpful at all.

Oh, okay.
Sorry.

Chris CA is only partially correct about responsibility for credit card fraud. The first port of call in any instance of specific fraud should NOT be with the card company but with the merchant associated with the fraud. That's the first question the CC provider will ask you whenever you call to report the fraudulent issue - "Have you attempted to deal with this directly with the merchant?".

Any case I've had of either fraudulent or mistaken charges outside of my recent dealings with Apple were dealt with smoothly and efficiently by the merchant, simply refunding the difference and removing any legal liability they would face if the CC company decided to push it back to them.

Note that Chris CA's reading of the credit card agreement is also incorrect. While the Fair Credit Act protects the consumers by placing the onus on the CC provider to prove/disprove fraud, it doesn't give retailers presenting fraudulent transactions any immunity from legal action should the card provider decide to pursue it. Apple leaves themselves significantly exposed when they show themselves able to detect fraudulent transactions (by closing down accounts that exhibit atypical behavior) but continue to present the charges for these transactions to the credit companies.

What it appears has happened is Apple has done the sums and decided it's easier for them legally or financially to just ignore fraud and let customers take it up with their CC company. It's confusing how this could be cheaper for them as the chargeback fees from the CC company are of the order of $30, which means not only does Apple not get any money from the transaction, they are also out the chargeback fees. Something doesn't add up there.

Not only are Apple out of pocket, but they give an extremely bad impression to end users. From the consumer point of view, it seems Apple doesn't care where it gets its money from and is quite happy to allow the fraud to stand, leaving everyone else to clean up instead of addressing the problem publicly and directly. While they may be working hard "undercover", it doesn't show and it leaves a very bad impression when they simply declare it someone else's problem that iTunes accounts are being abused in this manner.


Also note that Chris CA is incorrect in his statement that someone obtaining your iTunes account has access to your credit card information. This information is not retrievable from a hacked account - the only thing the crooks can do is charge things up to the account until either Apple closes down the account or the actual owner notices the charges accumulating.

As for Paypal - they are notorious for being very unhelpful to their customers in any non-eBay dispute. I would avoid them if there's any possibility at all of using another payment method.

Note that Chris CA's reading of the credit card agreement is also incorrect

No he is not incorrect but thanks for playing!

Chris CA wrote:

Note that Chris CA's reading of the credit card agreement is also incorrect

No he is not incorrect but thanks for playing!

Sure you are, and no amount of crying and stamping your feet is going to make it any different. You're reading of the Fair Credit Act is flawed - nothing in it says that merchants are not liable for presenting fraudulent transactions (if it did then unscrupulous merchants all over the place would simply start charging random credit cards and not be liable).

Similarly, your interpretation of the iTunes Store Terms Of Service is flawed. While section 9 certainly attempts to void Apple of any and all responsibility that they do legally have in maintaining reasonable security on supplied credit card information, they simply can't waive all responsibility in that way. Most (all?) states have laws protecting consumers from account breaches by retailers, and there's numerous cases where the retailer has been successfully sued for failure to sufficiently secure account information. EULAs and TOS cannot trump law.

The restrictions in the TOS aren't that uncommon - it's a standard legal tactic to make those documents basically deny any and all responsibility that the company is legally required to hold and then include a separability clause that essentially says they'll only accept fault if the law requires. The resulting mess is up to lawyers to decide.

As to your "thanks for playing" idiocy, unlike you I'm not "playing". None of these people that have suffered at the hands of Apple's lack of a reasonable merchant's response to credit card fraud are "playing". This is real money and not a game, so I'd actually like to thank you for "playing" and respectfully suggest you quit it and get serious.

I'm not crying or stamping my feet at all..
I apologize for attempting to help people by telling them to contact their credit card company instead of simply complaining here, which will get nothing done.

Chris CA wrote:
I'm not crying or stamping my feet at all..
I apologize for attempting to help people by telling them to contact their credit card company instead of simply complaining here, which will get nothing done.

^^
Great example of "crying and stamping feet". Quit acting like a child and throwing a tantrum.

I never once said your advice to contact the credit card company was bad, in fact I mentioned the same thing in my original post where I included the key additional component that they require you to have attempted to sort it out with the merchant first.

My entire complaint about you was your continued (apparent) insistence that Apple is doing no wrong by attempting to force all responsibility for fraud back on the CC provider and even the end user through their TOS. Trying to pretend that you were "just giving advice" is not only dishonest, it's stupid because all your posts defending Apple's behavior are a simple scroll up the thread.

Now, if you've finished with your little sulk, can we get back to adult conversation?

You're reading of the Fair Credit Act is flawed - nothing in it says that merchants are not liable for presenting fraudulent transactions

Since I never wrote that, I can't be "flawed" in what I read.

Similarly, your interpretation of the iTunes Store Terms Of Service is flawed

Same as above.

Well, if you're not disagreeing with anything I said (aside from attributions) then we've got nothing more to discuss on the matter, I guess. 🙂

My entire complaint about you was your continued (apparent) insistence that Apple is doing no wrong
...
all your posts defending Apple's behavior are a simple scroll up the thread.

I fail to see where I wrote anything even implying "Apple is doing no wrong" or defended Apple's behavior in my posts.

But I'm through so good luck!

If you have the patience to read a lot of posts here: http://garysaid.com/is-my-apple-itunes-account-hacked/ you will se HUNDREDS of people experiencing the same problem.
And if you read the two posts from "Matador" (at the very bottom of the list) you will also find an explanation (providing it's true...) for the hacking and its mechanism.
I think it's important at this point that Apple be aware of this fraudulent commerce (if they are not already aware) before other artcles like this ( http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/article7126884.ece) begin to circulate.
Apple relies heavily on iTunes and cannot afford such continuos perpetration of fraud in terms of both reputation and sales.
IMHO

I also recently had my iTunes account hacked and ~$250 stolen on May 26, 2010. Since then, I have not read a single discussion thread where Apple helped resolve the situation.

The most informative post I've read so far explains a likely cause of this whole debacle, given everyone's common descriptions of what's happening with their accounts. I've copied the post below (from macrumors.com). I hope Apple will own up and refund myself and all the other people who were ripped off because of Apple's user security and Apple's complete and utter lack of any fraud reporting mechanism:

Here's the link to this thread:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=407990&page=5

<Edited by Host>

So, just over 2 weeks after £544 was fraudulently spent via my iTunes account, my bank have reimbursed the money to my account. Still the really annoying thing is that iTunes have done nothing at all, the fact that their emails always seemed to end with "there's nothing more we can do" seems to sum up their entire attitude to this type of thing.

Thanks Apple, you've just lost another customer!!!

There's been a rash of these kinds of issues. I got hit a couple weeks ago and last night my wife got hit. Apple has a real problem here. I'm done giving them money on iTunes.