Iphone 11 Pro Extreme lens flare

I don’t think the anti-reflective coating is pretty much standard on “all camera lenses”, maybe you could say that for the professional dedicated cameras. From what I’ve seen on many other smartphones, many have the flare to about the same degree as the iPhone 11, especially the previous generations of iPhone and current flagships such as the pixel lineup and galaxy s10.

I’m not saying that having the anti-reflective coating wouldn’t be a nice touch (maybe) but it’s not something that was supposed to be on the iPhone 11 and Apple simply forgot. It’s way too repeated in the previous generations of iPhone and other current flagships that it can’t be called a “manufacturing defect”.

Now about the reflective back of the iPhone 11, one thing to note is that the iPhone 11 camera square is already frosted unlike its pro siblings and it still gets the same amount of flare. Now I have to say that I’m not sure about the camera rings contributing to the flare cause both models have it.

The anti-reflective coating may have been left out on recent iPhones and other models simply because the lenses covers are much larger than before and therefore much more exposed to scratching.

A coated lens from which the anti-reflective treatment was scratched, even slightly becomes a video or photographic disaster. These things are very fragile and therefore would require to be protected with a cap when not in use. This is the very reason why cameras, even cheap point & shoot, systematically have lens covers...

So it is easily feasible, certainly not forgotten by Apple, but the cap, which would be required, would be leading to some slight changes in how mobile phones are used... or rather tucked away in ones pocket or bag...

I would believe that it is the fact that the coating is so fragile, rather than the sapphire crystal lens itself, which led to the present situation.

Yes but we also have some mirror like glossy surfaces on the 11 Pro series which may contribute as well as the rings.

The issue is that nowadays with these large and exposed lenses covers, phone companies have to find a compromise and certainly forgo the lenses covers treatment for the simple reason that it is not scratch resistant and it is therefore very fragile to the point that a protective cap becomes a must. Having caps would definitely change the way these phones are used or rather tucked away in our pockets / bags. This is what may have led phone companies to avoid it.

Actually it's very possible to take most photos and videos without encountering this issue, and those same issues will be seen on virtually all high-end smartphones including those from Samsung and Google.

The bottom line is intense pinpoint light sources will cause flare that must be mitigated.

Identical issues from the competitors should not really be used as a justification given that Apple used to be at the design & innovations’ forefront of and do systematically better... hence benchmarking against others was always questionable. Has Apple so drastically changed that it now trails behind and just does same as others ? I hope not although it more and more seems so...

And why not mitigate flare & ghosting by design from the start especially that it is relatively easy to do ?

It's not easy to do.

Apple is up agains the limitations of optics, electronics and general physics.

If you believe the issue is easy to mitigate, design a camera system with the issue solved and become very wealthy.

So to let you guys know, I went to the service centre yesterday and the person in charge told me that lots of people have complained about it and it’s quite normal for this model, but she still gave the option for a repair. Since it was only an “authorised service centre”, she said that if I want to send it in for a check up/repair, I have to contact an Apple agent first and proceed with their recommendation. I’m gonna give this a shot and send it in for a repair on Monday ( it takes them quite a while to ship it to Singapore ) since this way I can let you guys know in detail if the repair is any good and also I can get rid of some of the scratches that I have on the lens rings ( happened by accident in the first few days of use). I’ll let you guys know in about a week from the upcoming Monday. It’s either going to be a phone replacement ( not going to be much help based on this forum ) or a camera unit replacement (that’s what I’m hoping to test).

It would be interesting to ask them exactly what they do with it.

Now, I do not believe that they will find anything out of the ordinary other than it is like all others...

To my humble opinion, the extreme lens flare is an engineering defect which main culprits are 1) the lenses covers 2) the mirror like bump and 3) the glossy lenses rings... On top of that the lenses covers are prone to cracking easily.

They replaced my camera a week or so ago on my iPhone from first batch of phones, didn't help(maybe they used a camera also from the first batch idk.). My brother's iPhone bought +- a month ago, works just fine(with some small normal/expected flares).

BTW: If you guys have inc. birthday or party with candles,lights, etc.., shoot videos & photos on your ****** old phone.

The software either updated or not has strictly nothing to do with this severe flare & ghosting issue.

The severe flare & ghosting issue is an optic problem linked with:

1) Lack of anti-reflective coating on the lenses covers.

2) Mirror like camera system square.

3) Mirror like lenses covers rings.

All these just exacerbate the flare & ghosting issue which by the way we can encounter with all optical / cameras systems depending on light sources, angles, number of optical elements even when all treated with anti-reflective coatings, etc... The iPhone 11 series cameras characteristics rather than control these, just exacerbate these phenomenons.

The more people report the issue, the more pressure on Apple to have a closer look... and perhaps propose a solution.

On top of the ghosting & flare issue, these lenses covers are very very fragile and many people have reported breakages... So a case protecting these is a must for this reason too !

Myself I may get some lenses covers made to the right specifications, get some frosted finish stickers on the glossy area, etc... all to avoid parasitic reflections which exacerbate the ghosting and flares. But for this to be viable I will need a case which covers the 3 lenses when not used so that the lenses covers anti-reflective coating does not get scratched as this is fragile and perhaps the reason why these lenses covers are not coated...

Because as a professional you know that issues that are common to all products of a format aren’t usually mentioned in reviews.

All flagship smartphones - iPhone 11, Galaxy S10, Pixel 4 - produce these same artifacts.

I think you’re glossing over the part where I states the iPhone 11 flares worse than any other phone, going all the way back to the iPhone 6s.

We expect phones to improve with each iteration — if a phone is worse in any regard, reviewers should be mentioning that.

Doubly so with this one, considering it is more expensive than the other competitors, and is being presented as a more professional content creation tool.

I have posted a number of photos in this thread. NONE with flare (but as I said, I'm pretty capable with a camera) and many taken in low light with bright lights. ALL are much better than any pictures I've taken on any iPhone (including my Xs Max) before my iPhone 11 Pro Max. It is, at least for me, a much better "content creation tool."

Hi ! It is great to get a pro in there; someone who knows about optics & the potential issues of light reflections... Nothing to do with software at all like some would like to believe.

Light reflexions is the issue here. It must be attenuated or at least there should have been an attempt to do so, by design.

In my humble opinion the culprit hardware is fairly simple to correct. The items which could be improved for a better control of ghosting & flare are as follows:

1) The lenses covers: Absence of effective anti-reflective coating whilst both sides should be coated.

2) The lenses covers: The black blanking rings on the sapphire crystal should be either matt (best) or frosted on both sides.

3) The camera system « bump » should not be so glossy i.e. mirror like but either matt (best) or frosted.

4) The camera rings should not be so glossy i.e. mirror like but either matt (best) or frosted.

5) The camera rings should be a bit thicker i.e. think hood, except for the wide angle.

I do not know if the sensor has anti-reflective coating but that is pretty standard these days to avoid ghosting...

Would you agree ?

Your picture displays a severe example of ghosting.

Now, I feel that such defects destroy the whole idea of a “point & shoot” since a lot of post work with expensive software tools becomes necessary to “cook” the pictures trying to “erase” these ghosting & flare artefacts...