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Cannot use fonts in Font Book - Please help

Hello - I cannot seem to find any answers on this. I have numerous Macs and about a year ago most of the fonts that I used all the time disappeared from the menus. They are still there in Font Book, they are validated, and yet they do not show up in the menus of Mail, Preview, Photos, etc.


In particular I really need to use Apple Chancery. It is in Font Book and validated.


I am not at all clear on the point of Font Book if the fonts there are not available to use. There must be something that I have to do or change since we upgraded to High Sierra - its the only thing I can think of that changed from when we could use it before.


If anyone can help this would be greatly appreciated!


iMac 21.5" 4K, macOS 10.13

Posted on Nov 20, 2019 10:33 AM

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Posted on Nov 22, 2019 7:08 AM

Just because I was on a bit of a roll, I dug a little deeper. 🙂


Turns outs this is a problem Apple themselves have created. It all goes back to where Seravek and the other fonts I mentioned earlier won't show up in Apple's own apps. Apple dumps a whole bunch of paired files onto the drive that go with each font installed by the OS. They're at:


/System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/

Frameworks/ATS.framework/Versions/A/Resources/FontInfo/


While they've been included with the Mac OS for a long time, these dumb things now appear to be tied to SIP and have something to do with protecting the system from hacked versions of the fonts. That's my assumption anyway since this whole issue with "ghost" fonts started with the introduction of SIP. If the checksum (or whatever method Apple is using) doesn't match the info of these files, the fonts won't appear in Apple's apps. Third party apps can still use them, though. Which makes the entire idea of checking them in the first place entirely pointless.


How do these buried files figure in? Charter used to be in the list of OS supplied fonts that wouldn't work. In the 10.13.4 update, Charter was updated, and I presume also its matching support files. All of a sudden, that font started working everywhere! They also updated Iowan Old Style further back (don't recall which OS that happened in), but then that font suddenly stopped working and has been broken since.


Seriously. Why does Apple bother with these .ATSD and .fontinfo files? All they do is cause unnecessary problems.


Can you get around it? Yes, if you have a font editor and do nothing but generate a new, unique font file. I opened Apple Chancery in FontLab IV and did nothing but save it back out as a .otf OpenType PostScript font. And voila, now being considered a third party font, it appears everywhere, just like it already should!



26 replies
Question marked as Top-ranking reply

Nov 22, 2019 7:08 AM in response to Kurt Lang

Just because I was on a bit of a roll, I dug a little deeper. 🙂


Turns outs this is a problem Apple themselves have created. It all goes back to where Seravek and the other fonts I mentioned earlier won't show up in Apple's own apps. Apple dumps a whole bunch of paired files onto the drive that go with each font installed by the OS. They're at:


/System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/

Frameworks/ATS.framework/Versions/A/Resources/FontInfo/


While they've been included with the Mac OS for a long time, these dumb things now appear to be tied to SIP and have something to do with protecting the system from hacked versions of the fonts. That's my assumption anyway since this whole issue with "ghost" fonts started with the introduction of SIP. If the checksum (or whatever method Apple is using) doesn't match the info of these files, the fonts won't appear in Apple's apps. Third party apps can still use them, though. Which makes the entire idea of checking them in the first place entirely pointless.


How do these buried files figure in? Charter used to be in the list of OS supplied fonts that wouldn't work. In the 10.13.4 update, Charter was updated, and I presume also its matching support files. All of a sudden, that font started working everywhere! They also updated Iowan Old Style further back (don't recall which OS that happened in), but then that font suddenly stopped working and has been broken since.


Seriously. Why does Apple bother with these .ATSD and .fontinfo files? All they do is cause unnecessary problems.


Can you get around it? Yes, if you have a font editor and do nothing but generate a new, unique font file. I opened Apple Chancery in FontLab IV and did nothing but save it back out as a .otf OpenType PostScript font. And voila, now being considered a third party font, it appears everywhere, just like it already should!



Nov 20, 2019 11:13 AM in response to EdgemontFarm

The Apple Chancery font is installed by High Sierra into /Library/Fonts. It would be available to you automatically, unless as Kurt suggests and for some unknown reason, the System font database has become corrupted. The process of booting into Safe Boot mode will rebuild that System font database, and upon a normal reboot, your access to Apple Chancery should resume.

Nov 22, 2019 9:42 AM in response to EdgemontFarm

Maybe I can try and find a simple non-expensive one to try this to get Chancery back? LOL!

There's one free font editor I know of. The open-source FontForge. I goofed and wrote FontLab IV above. It's VI, not IV. But that's a pretty pricey app most users wouldn't spend the money on. Still, I would think FontForge would accomplish the same thing. Open Apple Chancery in FontForge and just generate a new OpenType font.


Also to note, Apple Chancery is an Apple copyrighted font. But, that copyright is listed as 1993-1999. So, does that mean Apple has dropped the copyright for this font? Meaning, is it legal for the user to generate their own version of the font so it will work as it's supposed to? Might be a question to ask Apple Legal. They may not care as long as it's for your own use (no distribution). But, still. I'd ask, first.

Is Apple aware of all this?

Yes. I've reported these broken fonts on their bug reporting site at least three times. I think the second time was during the beta of Sierra. They finally fixed them all (Athelas.ttc, Charter.ttc, Marion.ttc, Seravek.ttc and SuperClarendon.ttc at the time) in the beta 3 release. They remained fixed in the initial release of Sierra and the 10.12.1 update. Then the 10.12.2 update came out, they were all broken again, and have been that way since! They fixed Charter in High Sierra, but broke Iowan Old Style at the same time.


I reported it again sometime after that, but nothing has happened to fix these five fonts in over three years. The one and only way to get Athelas.ttc, Iowan Old Style.ttc, Marion.ttc, Seravek.ttc and SuperClarendon.ttc working is to get copies of these fonts from Yosemite and replace the ones included with any newer version of macOS with them. Then they magically appear everywhere - as they should.

Nov 22, 2019 6:42 AM in response to BDAqua

Ah, got it. It's another OS supplied font Apple has somehow partially screwed up. When I was quick testing yesterday, I simply missed it being listed in TextEdit. Right there in front of me, but looked right past it, despite being right where you would expect to find it alphabetically.



I had someone email me a while back that they couldn't use Zapf Dingbats in Pages. Sure enough, nothing you tried could make it appear in the font list. After much playing around, I finally discovered you could copy/paste Zapf Dingbats text you set in TextEdit into Pages. Sure enough, Apple Chancery did the same. Neither it or Zapf Dingbats will appear in the font list even after that, but at least you can get it into the document.



Once pasted in, you can keep typing in Apple Chancery, too, with Pages all the while continuing to pretending the font doesn't exist. It even matters where you paste your Apple Chancery or Zapf Dingbats text from. TextEdit - works. MS Word 365 - doesn't work. Using TextEdit as a bridge is the only workaround I've found to get a font into Pages it won't show you in its own list.


Preview is different yet again. It ignores any attempt to get a font into the app not in its font list. Apple Chancery won't show as a choice, and you can't copy/paste it in from TextEdit, or any other app. Here I tried to paste Apple Chancery in from TextEdit, and all I got was Helvetica. Just as with Pages, Apple Chancery is nowhere to be seen in the font list.


Nov 20, 2019 12:25 PM in response to Kurt Lang

Thanks for the reply to you and VikingOSX, but I have shut down, restarted in Safe Mode, then restarted as normal and it still is the same issue.


If I am in Preview or Photos, the only fonts available are what appear in the "English" "Smart Collection" of Font Book. There is no apparently ability to use any choices other than what is in the "English Smart Collection"....


I used (and need) to be able to use Apple Chancery to lay over graphics whether photos or in Preview.


Any suggestions? I'm not clear at all as to why there would be all these fonts in the library if we can't use them (or how on earth I was using Apple Chancery all the time before - LOL!)


Thanks!!!


Nov 20, 2019 12:49 PM in response to EdgemontFarm

Starting up in Safe Mode (among other services the Mac performs when doing this) is all cache files are removed from the user account you logged into in Safe Mode, and Font Book's database is reset.


Some items need to be handled separately.


Close any apps you have running. Open the Library folder of your user account. One way to get there is to click anywhere on the desktop so Finder is the foreground app listed at the top left by the Apple logo. Hold down the Option key and on the top menu bar, choose Go > Library.


Now that the Library folder is visible, open the Preferences folder. Put these two items in the trash.


com.apple.FontBook.plist

com.apple.FontRegistry.user.plist


Next, from an administrator account, open the Terminal app (in the /Applications/Utilities/ folder) and enter the following command. You can also copy/paste it from here into the Terminal window:


sudo atsutil databases -remove


This removes all font cache files. Both for the system and the current logged in user. After running the command, close Terminal and immediately restart your Mac.


If that still doesn't help, try these next.


Back in the Library folder of your user account, open the FontCollections folder. Put all items within that folder in the trash. Except for any sets you many have created, these are not even slightly important. They're just examples of how to use sets in Font Book. The reason for removing them is damaged sets can cause Font Book to behave very badly.


BDAqua has already mentioned the other item I was going to. It can be a very useful test. No problem in the new account? Then the issue is confined to your normal account. Same problem? It's a system wide issue that typically means you need to reinstall the OS.

Nov 20, 2019 1:19 PM in response to EdgemontFarm

When you use Font Book to install your own fonts, the Fonts folder in your user account is where they go by default. If you haven't added any third party fonts, then yes, it will be empty.


Yes, those are all the default collections the OS installs for Font Book. But they'll also be in the new test account you just created. Since the problem is the same there, it's very unlikely removing these files in your normal account will help.

Nov 20, 2019 1:28 PM in response to Kurt Lang

Okay - I'll need to prepare more for reinstalling the OS, as I'm running Parallels & quickbooks and a bunch of other things I need to make sure are all set for me to do such a thing (LOL). I am assuming that reinstalling the OS means I have to start all over with various AIDs, preferences, etc. I share calendars, contacts, messages with other AIDs from home & office etc.


Also I'm still running High Sierra so am I correct that I can just do this from the recovery disk in my computer by restarting with Command+R?


Thank you all so much for your help!


Nov 20, 2019 1:34 PM in response to EdgemontFarm

Also I'm still running High Sierra so am I correct that I can just do this from the recovery disk in my computer by restarting with Command+R?

Yes, and with that particular key combination, it will reinstall the same OS already being used.


Only OS items are replaced. All user installed apps, settings and such remain as they are. Assuming nothing goes wrong, that is.

Nov 20, 2019 3:22 PM in response to Kurt Lang

Just one extra thing to mention - my iMac at home also running High Sierra 10.13.6 does the exact same behavior. Before I do a total reinstall of the OS, it seems bizarre that both computers would have this same issue, no?


Is it for certain that it would be normal in Preview of a jpg or png that the font pulldown would have all the fonts including Apple Chancery? And its not just some quirk of High Sierra?


I just don't want to do this if it turns out to not be the case that the fonts would appear in Preview or Photos (LOL)


Just as additional info, in Photos I can go to Markup, Edit, pull down "Show All Fonts" and can see then to choose All Fonts instead of the default "English" but regardless of what you do in that window, the type on the image you are editing will not change font or color or respond in any way unless you pull down from the font pulldown inside the photos app window, limiting you back to the same "English" only choices.


If you guys are certain that it should be normal that 10.13.6 should show all the font choices in Preview and Photos I will do it!


Thanks!



Cannot use fonts in Font Book - Please help

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