Level 2

252 points

MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise

We are testing two new 16-inch MacBook's before doing a rollout across our organization. Under low loads (25% cpu utilization), fan noise will get annoyingly loud. We're not doing any GPU related and more routine work such as: using web applications, debugging web pages, Microsoft Teams conferencing (audio/video) with a handful of people, Photos downloading from iCloud, Mac Mail downloading a new mailbox from Exchange.

We DID NOT notice this on our 2015 MacBooks and this might prevent us from continuing the 16-inch MacBook rollout in our organization.

Interested to hear others experiences.

Tim

MacBook Pro 16", macOS 10.15

Posted on Nov 21, 2019 11:34 AM

Top-ranking reply

TimUzzanti Author

Level 2

252 points

Posted on Dec 23, 2019 9:27 AM

All,

We are kind of wrapping up all our testing and working with the Apple Business Team to figure out how we move forward.

This thread is getting a little side tracked with monitors and so I wanted to point out that these issues discussed are completely unrelated to brand/model of monitors being used. That said, it IS related to having monitors connected and the internal GPU within the MacBook, along with the CPU and the overall heat that both generate.

In our final testings, we did clean installs with 10.15.2 and primarily tested an eGPU using a Razor Core and a Radeon RX Vega 64 so we could eliminate the internal GPU in the MBP.

It became really clear the combined heat from the internal Radeon Pro 5500m GPU and the i9-9880G CPU is too much for the current thermal management system, especially when using all USB-C ports. (I.e., for power, USB-C hub, USB-C to Display Port video cables). From all the testing and heat generated by the unit, it looks like our Radeon Pro 5500m GPU is fried because we are seeing artifacts on text (laptop display and external monitors) but not when we use the eGPU.

Just so you understand our configuration with the eGPU: We have one USB-C Hub connected to the MBP and one USB-C cable connected to the eGPU. The one USB-C cable to the eGPU is powering the MBP but also the eGPU has the two Display Port cable to the monitors. Now the MBP has two free USB-C ports. This was producing about 38 degrees less heat in Airflow on the MBP.

When the eGPU is connected, we can push the MBP to about 60% CPU for sustained periods before hearing the fans at about 4500 RPM. But as many of us have noticed, when we don’t have an eGPU, we’re seeing this at 5% to 10% CPU.

We have installed Parallels and ran Windows 10 on three monitors on separate space and have done Geekbench tests and a variety of stress tests with the eGPU and its operating normally.

Bottom line, the combination of using the GPU and CPU is pushing the MBP into heat conditions causing the FAN issues and in our case, possibly damage to the GPU.

Apple had a similar issue with the 2018 MacBook Pro and people were starting to stick their machines inside a Freezer to see if they could avoid the CPU’s from stepping down prematurely.

Hopefully Apple can find a solution because these new 16 inch MBP could be incredible.

Please start a support case with Apple so we can get this resolved sooner than later and it will also protect you a bit more if you need to return your units beyond the return policy. Moving forward, its all on Apple!

Tim

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4,224 replies

Dogcow-Moof

Level 8

36,839 points

Mar 29, 2020 9:57 AM in response to iTech23

My question has always been, does it shut itself down due to thermal overload? I know what that is like from the MacBook, which would often do just that if you tried to run something like Photoshop with an external monitor.

To me, if the fans run at their full capable speed from the time you touch the trackpad, it is still completely usable as thermal management is working as long as it doesn’t shut down, but as I’ve also said, that’s because I am used to that from other (PC-based) laptops as well as tower PCs that have six to eight fans of their own inside. For example, the (very loud and high pitched) fans on an Acer Ferrari 3400 PC laptop would spin up to max about 60 seconds after powering it on and would stay there until you shut it down, no matter what you were doing because its AMD Opteron CPU shed that much heat.

So if you just ignore the fans and whatever temperature whatever utility is showing, does it still run your apps properly, or does it in fact shut itself down?

I’m not saying that’s normal or that’s how it should be, I just want that single data point simply because I have seen it happen in the past on other systems and wonder if the MBP 16 ever gets there.

raimiss

Level 1

8 points

Apr 1, 2020 9:45 AM in response to iTech23

Be careful - we don't know why those fans go crazy - it might be some controller responsible for power that's overheating. My macbook never goes above 70, but after doing something heavy (when cpu/gpu temps gets to 70s) it will blow fans like crazy until cpu and gpu will get down to low 50s (celcius). Normally it's operating around 60 degrees and fans are at 2000. This is just me guessing, but playing with fan speeds sounds like a risky business.

iTech23

Level 1

44 points

Apr 1, 2020 9:54 AM in response to raimiss

Yes I understand that (I'm a software engineer) and I working with 2 hardware engineers, we were really careful and we were checking all temperatures the whole time and we only used the computer to browse the web.

I completely understand that the fans will go faster under heavy load, the problem here is that the fans can go over 3500 RPM (sometimes way more) just by browsing the web, when CPU and GPU % is almost 0.

Spinnn

Level 1

16 points

Apr 1, 2020 10:22 AM in response to TailsDog

Please allow me to ask again if someone is using the Macbook Pro 16-inch with a new generation USB-C display? Do you have heat/fan problems? Just putting forward the hypothesis of some kind of technology mismatch between the laptop and an old display. Thanks

Apr 2, 2020 6:50 AM in response to krisbal

I've just installed 10.15.4 on my 16". Fans are running as usual, but in this moment the laptop is under 30-40% load. The external monitor it's working, but I have to check this in the next days. Even with 10.15.3 a reboot temporary solved this problem.

iTech23

Level 1

44 points

Apr 2, 2020 9:04 AM in response to Dogcow-Moof

That doesn't mean is not defective or that there is no macOS bug.

If a machine is designed to run it fans up to 5500 RPM and you get that ALL THE TIME just by browsing the web, that is not normal operation.

iTech23

Level 1

44 points

Apr 2, 2020 9:20 AM in response to SzariK

Overheat means: "to become heated beyond a safe or desirable point", "make or become too hot."

So, yes the machine OVERHEATS because it's beyond desirable point and that causes the machine to throttle just by browsing the web.

DPJ

Level 4

1,374 points

Apr 2, 2020 9:40 AM in response to Dogcow-Moof

William not all of us are having issues. My 16”MBP Is connected via HDMI to my external monitor. I’m playing movies and photo editing using Pixelmator which activates the dGPU. The machine isn’t even warm. It’s been great! I agree people using non-factual terms like overheating when it’s not actually doing that is overdramatic.

TimUzzanti Author

Level 2

252 points

Apr 2, 2020 10:13 AM in response to TimUzzanti

Based on some of the improvements with the recent version of MacOS... although it is far from perfect and for many of our employees and customers there have been more issues as I explained in my previous post. Apple does seem to realize there are problems. The GPU is not going to 100% utilization like it was previously for simple tasks. We are seeing WindowsServer behave a little better. But, the lack of response and guidance is incredibly disappointing. Every department or Apple Engineer has been useless. In some cases they just stop responding. This isn't the Apple that we have used to for years. These are just honest assessments from someone that likes Apple as a whole. But with premium prices should come premium products and service.

Apr 2, 2020 5:15 PM in response to iTech23

As further evidence of how defective the MacBook Pro 16" is, I tried putting it on ice packs to the point the case was extremely cold but the fans were still blasting and the device temperature was virtually unchanged.

It was almost like the macbook was using the extra cooling to overrun the GPU more and generate even more heat than is necessary.

Which is ridiculous, any laptop which runs on full boil just to drive a couple of monitors is by definition defective. Whether it's a hardware or software bug or that virtually everyone has the issue is immaterial to the fact the machines are all defective. (save for one person here who doesn't have the issue it seems?)

DPJ

Level 4

1,374 points

Apr 3, 2020 7:42 AM in response to Spinnn

My MacBook is a Core i9 2.3Ghz 1TBSSD AMD 5500M 8GB. Yes the dGPU activates when connected to an external monitor. With a dGPU Mac that will always activate when connected to external monitors. I connected my MacBook to my 64" Plasma TV via HDMI (USB-C to HDMI cable, no dongle) and I just watched a 2-1/2hr movie last night. It ran perfectly and the MacBook had no fan noise and it was moderately warm at best after the movie finished. The only time I ever experience fans blowing is during transcoding on Final Cut Pro X which is normal. My earlier MBP's all did that even with iMovie as transcoding is very CPU intensive.

Apr 3, 2020 9:09 AM in response to DPJ

It's not because we don't believe you. As long as we're complaining about the high gpu power consumption, the only way to give us any indication about it is to check it with istat. Otherwise, we truley don't interset about what you did yesterday at night, and which movie did you see.

[Edited by Moderator]

Apr 6, 2020 4:06 PM in response to SF6

OMG this might be it! That explains why some people don'thave problems when running two displays in clamshell and I have problems, my external monitors have different resolutions!

Will test this out and get back to you guys (assuming I haven't been 'dissapeared' by the time I'm back by Will.I.Am and the Wachowski Brothers).

Apr 6, 2020 6:18 PM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder

The noise isn't the problem. The heat is the problem. For me, a software developer, I hate being thermal throttled. Thermal throttling makes the computer a lot slower. Especially in my case, I will be compiling code and running VMs for testing at the same time. I need to build codes as fast as possible to reduce round trip time for my debugging sessions. I need every bit of performance from my dev machine to work efficiently. And using external monitors is essential for my job. I need to look at a lot of codes and interact with the VMs. This is a "Pro" use case and MBP should definitely support it. Especially the previous generations of MBP don't have the same problem.

Apr 6, 2020 6:34 PM in response to pancakes-addiction

If Apple could make the MBP 16" to draw the built-in retina screen with the Intel GPU and external monitors with dGPU, that will also fix the problem. There are solutions to the problem if Apple cares enough to fix it.

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MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise