Virtualbox Mac m1

dangoulet1 wrote:

The real issue is that Apple acts like they’re still selling pickups and you just trust them on their word. When you receive this new $6000 laptop it’s actually a smart car in a pickups clothing.

LOL. I like it.

I guess one should always check a product before purchase to ensure it meets one's needs.

So true. Unfortunately most people don’t realize the implications until it’s too late.

Apple has been selling MacBook Pro’s for a long time now and created a product that I believed beat the competition by a landslide.

I almost bought a maxed out one for like $6000. After doing more research I decided not to buy one. My current 3 year old MacBook Pro with 32GB memory can do everything I need and have been doing for years. I’ll probably buy a refurbished mbp 16 with 32GB of memory.

The newest one I almost purchased would not be capable.

This is very misleading and so many people have struggled and Apple does not post any disclaimers or anything.

dangoulet1 wrote:

This is very misleading and so many people have struggled and Apple does not post any disclaimers or anything.

Sorry but I don't know why you would say anything is misleading. The specifications of each Mac is clearly included in Apple's site. There is no need for a "disclaimer" as far as I know.

This is absolutely misleading since mac book mostly used by developers require to be installed minimum software like docker using virtual box. Even now a days DevOps are in peak where these softwares are mandatory to have. Apple should have mentioned that with categories like what not compatible for developers and what not for UX designers etc.

So because your particular third party software doesn't do what you want it to and what its manufacturer never said it would do, it's misleading on Apple's part.

Sorry, no.

If you don't like that, don't purchase future Macs, they no longer suit your needs.

While I use VirtualBox on my x86 Mac to spin up the odd Windows instance, somehow neither I nor any of the developers I work with "need" the software you describe as "mandatory" to do our jobs.

For what it's worth, Docker states:

Docker Desktop for Apple silicon also supports multi-platform images, which allows you to build and run images for both x86 and ARM architectures without having to set up a complex cross-compilation development environment. Additionally, you can use docker buildx to seamlessly integrate multi-platform builds into your build pipeline, and use Docker Hub to identify and share repositories that provide multi-platform images.

https://docs.docker.com/desktop/mac/apple-silicon/

If something changes that significantly then yes, it should have a disclaimer.

If for the last 10+ years you could do these tasks with it and now suddenly you can’t, there should be something to describe that.

Apple makes Rosetta 2 sound like it’s way more capable than it truly is.

This is misleading, yes, they place all of the specs on their website, and boast about Rosetta 2 being more capable than it is.

I posted a link to an article Apple posted in December, 2020 detailing what Rosetta 2 would and wouldn't do.

Since you didn't buy one, you've lost nothing but you will have to find another hardware vendor going forward just as PowerPC fans once did.

Meanwhile most Mac users and yes, developers will love their wildly capable Apple Silicon MBPs.

For years Apple enthusiasts could run tools like VirtualBox, VMWare, Parallels, Bootcamp, docker, on their MacBooks.

This isn’t possible any longer. We’re not talking about incompatibility for a single app. Lol. We’re talking about many apps.

How would developers work on this thing?

Backend developers target x86 and not ARM. Most of their software would never run on ARM. I can’t count the number of times I’ve needed some programming library based on something written in C/C++/Haskell/or whatever and those things don’t run on ARM.

How would a devops engineer build stuff destined for the cloud? They don’t start in the cloud, they start locally.

I upgrade my computer every 3 years and was blown away when I learnt that Rosetta 2 didn’t truly solve the problem. If you look around the internet there are others struggling with this too and these folks are finding out the hard way after purchasing.

How is this not misleading? There’s no headlines stating hey, remember how you used to use VMWare Fusion? How about Virtualbox or docker? Well those won’t work anymore. Instead they talk about how Rosetta 2 solves these issues without directly stating that.

I realize I’ve gone off, and I truly apologize. I’m totally bent about this. Apple is a great company with wonderful products, and the new MBP’s are not one of them anymore.

Also, who needs Apple silicon for graphics? Oh they talk a big game but what company makes the best GPU for machine learning and gaming? It’s not Apple and not AMD. It’s nvidia. Almost all ML libraries work with CUDA.

I’ll shut up now and crawl back into my troll den.

I would rather ask a very simple question to Apple, the virtual box was supporting with Intel process till M1 was not launched, would they bother to inform the user it won’t support in M1? As I am a big fan of Apple products I just blindly bought the M1 macbook thinking that will support as usual. This is not good.

It's a third party product, Apple doesn't have to inform anyone about anything a third party developer does.

Meanwhile VirtualBox states in the first line on their first page (emboldening mine):

VirtualBox is a powerful x86 and AMD64/Intel64 virtualization product for enterprise as well as home use.

That makes it pretty clear.

Yes, they should inform about which is popular app is being used since long. Moreover I as a user won’t go to each and every third party app to check whether apple m1 will work or not. This is not user’s job. I spending **** lot of money in apple products and they are solely responsible to circulate these info on their release notes. This is simply hiding the information and cheating the people and making money.

Abhi1640 wrote:

Yes, they should inform about which is popular app is being used since long. Moreover I as a user won’t go to each and every third party app to check whether apple m1 will work or not. This is not user’s job. I spending **** lot of money in apple products and they are solely responsible to circulate these info on their release notes. This is simply hiding the information and cheating the people and making money.

I'm afraid you have this totally backwards. It is the responsibility of the third party app developer to keep their app compatible with whatever system they want their app to be used on. It is the responsibility for users to check that their third party apps will continue to work when upgrading a system. It would be impossible for Apple, Microsoft , or any other computer company to keep track of the millions of users and third party apps in use. You are asking these computer companies to keep their systems compatible with third party apps. Never going to happen.

It does and you’re right.

I’ve been working in IT for a long long time and it’s easy to gloss over all of the things you shouldn’t. People do it.

When upgrading your laptop and buying the newest of the same brand most folks don’t expect that and downplay their testing or simply wouldn’t expect such a drastic change. Maybe they even install it and it appears like it’ll be fine.

ARM processors aren’t typically used in high performance applications and Apple has really created the best ARM chips of all time, it’s quite an achievement. But look at high performance server systems and you won’t see ARM there. Lol. People that develop software for these backends don’t need ARM desktops they need the same configuration.

dangoulet1 wrote:

For years Apple enthusiasts could run tools like VirtualBox, VMWare, Parallels, Bootcamp, docker, on their MacBooks.

Don't care, aside from Bootcamp they're third party products, you need to check with their vendors, not Apple.

If say something like Photoshop plain didn't work, it still wouldn't be Apple's responsibility to mention that.

This isn’t possible any longer. We’re not talking about incompatibility for a single app. Lol. We’re talking about many apps.

Let's see, Docker, Parallels and VMWare all run on Apple Silicon.

How would developers work on this thing?

Backend developers target x86 and not ARM. Most of their software would never run on ARM. I can’t count the number of times I’ve needed some programming library based on something written in C/C++/Haskell/or whatever and those things don’t run on ARM.

That's the single most ridiculous comment you've made.

Developers who target x86 may have issues.

There are a wide variety of developers who target ARM and myriad other CPU architectures that exist. The entire iOS and macOS developer communities see no difference when developing on Apple Silicon machines.

Most of the Linux user community is processor-agnostic as well, as is much of the web development world.

It matters little which processor a Python script or a PHP routine runs on unless it's specifically crafted to be CPU-dependent.

How would a devops engineer build stuff destined for the cloud? They don’t start in the cloud, they start locally.

There are multiple architectures supported in the cloud, so if you can't develop anywhere but locally, that's your issue.

I upgrade my computer every 3 years and was blown away when I learnt that Rosetta 2 didn’t truly solve the problem. If you look around the internet there are others struggling with this too and these folks are finding out the hard way after purchasing.

Thats like saying a Tesla buyer was confused when they went to the gas station to fill up.

How is this not misleading? There’s no headlines stating hey, remember how you used to use VMWare Fusion? How about Virtualbox or docker? Well those won’t work anymore. Instead they talk about how Rosetta 2 solves these issues without directly stating that.

Except for VirtualBox, they do.

As a user of a third party application, it is your responsibility to see if an app you require works on the machine you are considering.

This is like blaming Apple when your new computer comes with Monterey and your third party app only works on Big Sur.

I realize I’ve gone off, and I truly apologize. I’m totally bent about this. Apple is a great company with wonderful products, and the new MBP’s are not one of them anymore.

Your opinion, I think they are better than ever and I said it with my own personal money.

Also, who needs Apple silicon for graphics? Oh they talk a big game but what company makes the best GPU for machine learning and gaming? It’s not Apple and not AMD. It’s nvidia. Almost all ML libraries work with CUDA.

If you're doing that, hey, go crazy.

Little ML was done on laptops anyway because of the huge amount of heat the GPUs in the Intel world generate.

In short, for the vast majority of people, the M1 MBPs are a huge leap forward.

For others it's why the 27" 5K iMac and Mac Pro are still stuck on Intel for now.

dangoulet1 wrote:

ARM processors aren’t typically used in high performance applications and Apple has really created the best ARM chips of all time, it’s quite an achievement. But look at high performance server systems and you won’t see ARM there.

Don't be so quick to say that; there are more than a few server companies investigating ARM for the same reason Apple did - better performance with lower power consumption and Intel's roadmap is way behind.