"Background Items Added" in Ventura 13.1

For what it's worth, I have seen very little Mac software with an actual uninstaller. When they do exist, they rarely touch the ~/Library folder, leaving reams of files left over in /Application Support, Preferences, LaunchAgents/Daemons. What is really annoying for me is that updates to programs do nothing to clean up the residue of older versions.

When you really want to 86 an app, you really need to check the above folders both under your user and in /System/Library.

Ric

For what it's worth, I have seen very little Mac software with an actual uninstaller.

If it doesn't have an uninstaller or at least instructions, you should never install it. It's garbageware.

When they do exist, they rarely touch the ~/Library folder, leaving reams of files left over in /Application Support, Preferences,

That is your data. It may be config files, but it is your data and does nothing to the OS.

LaunchAgents/Daemons.

If the uninstaller doesn't remove an installed launch Agent or Daemon, it is garbageware that should never be installed.

What is really annoying for me is that updates to programs do nothing to clean up the residue of older versions.

A lot of the residue is user configurations/licensing which most people don't want to have to re-complete when they reinstall the app. There are times when the user data is what is corrupting the app, and that is when you would go into those locations in the Library and remove those files.

If I ever install something that uses a Package installer, I inspect what it plans to install and where using Suspicious Package. If a developer cannot completely contain their app inside the application bundle, you should be very wary of their ability to write stable software.

Very many of the LaunchAgents are just update checkers. They should be able to check for updates without using a LaunchAgent. However, Adobe and Microsoft seem unable to do so.

Modern macOS software should be bundling all of that inside the app.

There should be one uninstall method.

There is, with two options.

If you used an installer where you entered an admin password, or entered your admin password on “first run,” then you need to use the developer’s uninstaller. Otherwise, you can just trash the app.

Rebooted, now Epson notification is gone. Others remain - some of which I need (e.g. Citrix). Most, I can't tell whether I need.

I expect most of these items running in the background have been there for ages. What's changed is OSX's notification policy. More transparency about what's running in the background is a good thing. However, it is nothing more that annoying to repeatedly notify about it. Once after any related application software update would be enough. At most, once after an OSX update.

In any case, this is clearly a Ventura flub. I suppose Apple tech support is saying nothing because they don't want to acknowledge the goof. Hopefully, they're quietly fixing it for a subsequent OSX release.

ClickWheelNotCharging wrote:

• One question I still have: what does "Allow in Background" have to do with "Login Items"? Are these background items actually loading at login, or was that list just jammed in there for convenience? No idea...

LOL! 😄 What an excellent question! I'm pretty sure that, deep down, you do know the answer. It was all just jammed in there for convenience.

In the meantime (and I'm repeating myself a bit) I'm not sure whether the Settings dialog box has any efficacy whatsoever:

the "Allow in the Background" list contains a slew of items that are unchecked but still load in the background on occasion per the notifications that the unchecked thing "added items that can run in the background"

If you haven't already guessed, you should never make any changes in that settings dialog. If you already have, then I'm afraid that nobody knows what will happen. And I'm not just spouting off either. You really don't know. I don't either. Apple doesn't, because Apple didn't write the software. Even the people who wrote the software don't know what happens to their software when it is run under these conditions.

And I don't even know what to tell you. I have been recommending that people properly uninstall any apps that are affected or that they have modified using this interface. But that's a royal mess. I only say that because it seems the best way to get someone back to a known, stable, predictable state. I think, but I'm not sure, that the user could reinstall said software and get back to their original state. Doing a reinstallation may fix the notifications or it may cause more notifications. But either way, the problem will be just a little bit more understood.

Technically, I'm not willing to dig into the issue and figure out what is going on. This is just a royal disaster that it seems logical that Apple will make some changes. When that happens, I will have wasted any debugging time and effort. I don't know if Apple's changes will fix the problem or make it worse. I don't know if Apple will change anything. But if people start their own question, and provide enough information, I will do what I can to try to help them get productive again.

I just updated to 13.2 and they are still there and as someone else mentioned, it happens even more if you change the settings in the Login Items > Allow in background section. So though if you're reading here it's likely too late; however, the best course of action to inaction, I recommend not changing any additional settings here to receive the least amount of popups. ;) As for waiting for them to "disappear" as the suggested best answer, I hope that isn't the only one.

Checking back in...

I've done most everything everyone has suggested with LaunchAgents/Daemons, Startup Items, etc. without any success. In fact, when I change things, I get even more popups for a while. At times, they have exceeded the length of my screen. Disabling the startup (background) components of up-to-date, working-until-Ventura applications and thus disabling those services is NOT a solution, unless they stay gone when reenabled. That hasn't been the case for me. I've been working with Apple Sr Support on another issue (Settings search never worked in Ventura) and mentioned this. It is an issue that's known to them. But, I guess, 13.2 didn't have the fix.

Yes, they are heterogenous and slippery, but I have to object to: "It is not an OS problem, but an app problem highlighted by the OS". None of this nuisance happened before Ventura. You can see above how annoying it is. Apple muffed this. It was a good idea to let us all know what had formerly been hidden in the background. But, the implementation, providing multiple repeating notifications at the slightest provocation, was an error in the OS. As for the premise that it is the apps' fault - Apple is noted (and notorious) for policing what gets installed in our operating systems. So, Apple is responsible for allowing all of this mess, apart from the quite unusual installation that requires going around the protections.

Microsoft teams is adding the Microsoft auto update background item every time you install it. It does the same for Microsoft edge.

But it shouldn’t be showing a notification for the other two apps, just for Microsoft auto update.

The notifications will disappear over time but will post again when software is updated.

The app that was causing me a headache was OneDrive.

Problem has not recurred for me in OS 13.2.1.

Why do you think this is a problem with just Microsoft?

Why do you think he said it was a problem with just Microsoft. The app causing the problem in this case was Edge. He suggested removing it because it is causing the problem.

He also noted that he has no problems with Microsoft Office, but doesn’t have Edge installed. So he specifically said some Microsoft apps do not exhibit the problem.

ChurchWash wrote:

Why do you think this is a problem with just Microsoft?

Doh!

Why are you posting the same canned response if you don't even know how to uninstall a program?

There's the rub. Each program is different and has a different uninstallation method. Sometimes you can drag it to the trash. Sometimes you can use an "app zapper". Sometimes you can use an uninstaller. Sometimes all methods will fail. And that is the fundamental problem with all of these similar-sounding reports. Each one is, in fact, a unique problem that has a unique solution. These threads get longer and longer with "me too" responses. One person hacks up their system and manages to stop the notifications, no realizing that they've also perhaps damaged their computer, and they post their "solution". 16 people try that solution and they all fail. Repeat the process forever with more and more people getting frustrated.

But there are other people who are quietly posting their own questions with detailed information. Nobody notices those because they get their problem fixed and everybody gets on with their lives.

I am getting this for EPSON Event Manager (long ago deleted, I have no Epson hardware), Spotify (not on my machine - I don't use). Also a bunch from Adobe, but I find it hard to figure out how to control Adobe and which of the many pieces I can discard.