So I had been using Carbon Copy Cloner and even Time Machine in the past, but since upgrading to m1 and Ventura im lost.
Is there any way to clone your user and restore it in the event you need to erase and restore the system due to issues, or are you only able to restore files...and forced to re install all your apps again?
[Re-Titled by Moderator]
MacBook Air 13″, macOS 13.0
GavrielTech wrote:
So based on this thread you can no longer clone a drive, regardless of the fact that even clones restored unto different drives requested that applications be re authorised based oh MACHINE ID numbers.
I rarely make bootable clones these days, but the last time I did with Big Sur (Intel) I had no issues, although there is always a chance some proprietary third party apps will need to be re-authorized depending on how they identify the system and how particular they are. Nothing new here though in that regard.
Anyway, the point iam making is we have to deal with it until a solutions comes about, my last questions are
1-what is the point of Time Machine if you cant restore apps or a user state?
It is to have a spare copy of a file available if needed. Perhaps many older versions will be available as well depending on the size of the backup drive to hold older versions of documents. Most backups are only concerned about the user data and perhaps system settings...it is rare that applications are included in backups because some of them actually tie themselves into the bowles of an OS and need to use an installer app which a backup won't be able to restore unless it is restoring a whole system image.
2-Has anyone successfully initialised their computer like an iPhone, re installed a fresh system and managed to then restore the user and all installed related programs and extensions?
If you migrate from another Mac, then yes this is theoretically possible. Migration Assistant transferred all my third party apps, most settings, and my data to my new Mac...it wasn't as easy as it should have been, but it has mostly worked out. You would need to reconfigure any iCloud & AppleID related settings though, and even Messages settings (I had to modify settings on my iPhone to change a setting on my new Mac's Messages app...there was no notification or warning this needed to be done).
GavrielTech wrote:
So based on this thread you can no longer clone a drive, regardless of the fact that even clones restored unto different drives requested that applications be re authorised based oh MACHINE ID numbers.
I rarely make bootable clones these days, but the last time I did with Big Sur (Intel) I had no issues, although there is always a chance some proprietary third party apps will need to be re-authorized depending on how they identify the system and how particular they are. Nothing new here though in that regard.
Anyway, the point iam making is we have to deal with it until a solutions comes about, my last questions are
1-what is the point of Time Machine if you cant restore apps or a user state?
It is to have a spare copy of a file available if needed. Perhaps many older versions will be available as well depending on the size of the backup drive to hold older versions of documents. Most backups are only concerned about the user data and perhaps system settings...it is rare that applications are included in backups because some of them actually tie themselves into the bowles of an OS and need to use an installer app which a backup won't be able to restore unless it is restoring a whole system image.
2-Has anyone successfully initialised their computer like an iPhone, re installed a fresh system and managed to then restore the user and all installed related programs and extensions?
If you migrate from another Mac, then yes this is theoretically possible. Migration Assistant transferred all my third party apps, most settings, and my data to my new Mac...it wasn't as easy as it should have been, but it has mostly worked out. You would need to reconfigure any iCloud & AppleID related settings though, and even Messages settings (I had to modify settings on my iPhone to change a setting on my new Mac's Messages app...there was no notification or warning this needed to be done).
you are mistaken, not with regard to Silicon machines. Apple has a bug in their ASR routine that prevents it. I know you don't believe me so I'll provide proof! You do know who Mike Bombich is right? This is from his Blog:
Apple Software Restore isn't quite ready for the new Apple Silicon Mac storage
When Apple introduced Apple Silicon Macs, we discovered another snag. The "Apple Fabric" storage in these Macs offers per-file encryption keys (like the storage in iOS devices), and for months, ASR didn't work with it. Apple partially resolved that in macOS 11.3, but even now using ASR to clone the system back to the internal storage of these Macs doesn't quite work – it causes a kernel panic.
Back in December I had a conference call with Apple about the reliability and functionality of ASR on macOS and regarding Apple Silicon Macs in particular. They indicated that they were working to resolve the ASR/Apple Fabric issue, but they made it very clear that copying macOS system files was not something that would be supportable in the future. Many of us in the Mac community could see that this was the direction Apple was moving, and now we finally have confirmation. Especially since the introduction of APFS, Apple has been moving towards a lockdown of macOS system files, sacrificing some convenience for increased security.
An Apple Silicon Mac won't boot if the internal storage has failed
If you were making your backups bootable in case of hardware failure, then that's an extra logistical chore that you can now retire from your backup strategy.
What did come as a surprise, however, was a very subtle logistical change noted in a Product Security document published in February(link is external Startup Disk security policy control for a Mac with Apple silicon – Apple Support (UK)) regarding the new Apple Silicon Macs. A footnote at the very end of the document notes that, regardless of where the boot device is physically located, the boot process is always facilitated by a volume on the internal storage. The lightweight operating system on that volume ("iBoot") evaluates the integrity of the boot assets and authenticates the OS on that external device, then proceeds with the boot process from that external device. What does all of that mean? In theory it means that Apple Silicon Macs cannot boot at all if the internal storage fails. Lacking a Mac whose internal storage I was willing to damage to prove this, I contacted the authoritative experts within Apple in April and they unambiguously confirmed that that is the actual result – you can't boot an Apple Silicon Mac if the internal storage has died.
Apple has made clear that they will continue to support "external boot" on Apple Silicon Macs, but the reality is that it will be more limited in what it can do. If you were making your backups bootable in case of hardware failure, then that's an extra logistical chore that you can now retire from your backup strategy.
https://bombich.com/kb/ccc6/how-restore-from-your-backup
Excerpt from above
Using Migration Assistant to restore your startup disk from a CCC backup
Recovering your Mac from a CCC backup(link is external)
You can use Migration Assistant to migrate data from a CCC backup on locally-attached storage to a clean installation of macOS. Follow these steps to reinstall macOS and restore your data:
† Big Sur (and older OSes): Migration Assistant won't list volumes that are encrypted and locked (i.e. not mounted), and won't helpfully offer any UI for unlocking and mounting those volumes. If you would like to migrate data from an encrypted volume, proceed with creating a new user account instead. After logging in, you'll be prompted to unlock the volume, and then you can open Migration Assistant (Applications > Utilities > Migration Assistant.app) and proceed with the migration.
Last month I had to sadly abandon CCC for making a clone of my internal Apple SSD (5K iMac, Ventura 13.2.1). No matter what I did (following the rather convoluted instructions on CCC´s website) CCC just couldn´t make a bootable clone. I switched to SuperDuper!, and it makes a perfect bootable clone...every time, and I always test clones when they´re finished. So yes, SuperDuper! works perfectly on Ventura, and is so simple to use! Fast, too. Cheers!
While it is still possible to use CCC to clone a bootable macOS drive, this only works on Intel Macs AFAIK. With one of the macOS 12.x Monterey updates, several users reported that CCC was no longer able to make a bootable clone of an M1 Apple Silicon Mac...I don't know if this was ever overcome.
With the release of macOS 11.x Big Sur, the developer of CCC posted that Apple had told him that bootable clones were a thing of the past and would no longer be possible in the near future. In fact, the CCC documentation says bootable clones are now just a "best effort". The CCC developer now advises people perform a clean install of macOS to an external drive and using CCC to transfer the data to it in order to keep the data synced. When attempting to make a bootable clone of macOS 11.x+ using CCC, you must now erase the destination drive and right-click on the destination within CCC to select "Legacy" option which makes (or tries to make) the clone bootable. This CCC article discusses everything in more detail:
https://bombich.com/kb/ccc6/cloning-macos-system-volumes-apple-software-restore
With all of the new macOS security settings, there is no guarantee of a completely smooth transition. I spent over four hours the other day attempting to use Migration Assistant and even then I still had lots of things to reconfigure since some of the macOS custom settings did not update on the new Mac. All my third party software worked perfectly after the migration, it was only the Apple apps which had issues..and still have some issues. All of the issues I encountered were due to Apple & macOS, along with poor documentation and error messages, and absolutely no documentation for how to deal with any of the error conditions I encountered.
If you perform the backup method suggested by the developer of CCC, then you will be able to test things out after the initial setup and have your answers for how things work at this time...who knows what may happen in the future as macOS adds new security features. It never hurts to have more than one backup method just for reasons like this. All I know is that CCC works very well for transferring data files to other media including placing them into read-only .dmg archives even if easy to make bootable backups are no longer an option except as described by the CCC developer in the linked article.
Ian Leckie wrote:
Last month I had to sadly abandon CCC for making a clone of my internal Apple SSD (5K iMac, Ventura 13.2.1). No matter what I did (following the rather convoluted instructions on CCC´s website) CCC just couldn´t make a bootable clone. I switched to SuperDuper!, and it makes a perfect bootable clone...every time, and I always test clones when they´re finished. So yes, SuperDuper! works perfectly on Ventura, and is so simple to use! Fast, too. Cheers!
Was this an Intel or Apple Silicon Mac?
It would appear to be obvious to me.
Get a Separate Dedicated External Drive for the sole purpose of Cloning the exiting Drive
Just be certain to attempt a Legacy Clone configuration from Within the setting of Carbon Copy Cloner
refer to link below
https://bombich.com/kb/ccc6/macos-monterey-known-issues
Or and from an untested by myself method
refer to link below
How To Clone Your Mac Using ASR
Have not used SuperDuper.
As the Developer of the Other Reputable Cloning Software has mentioned, Apple has Forced Cloning Software Developers to the the ASR Utility Builtin into macOS
Reference to using the ASR Functionality to Clone without Third Party Software involved
Ian Leckie wrote:
Last month I had to sadly abandon CCC for making a clone of my internal Apple SSD (5K iMac, Ventura 13.2.1). No matter what I did (following the rather convoluted instructions on CCC´s website) CCC just couldn´t make a bootable clone. I switched to SuperDuper!, and it makes a perfect bootable clone...every time, and I always test clones when they´re finished. So yes, SuperDuper! works perfectly on Ventura, and is so simple to use! Fast, too. Cheers!
Thanks for this post Ian Leckie— CCC sure has seemed to complicate things vis-à-vis the new macOS two-Volume structure...
I am going back to my shirt-pocket.com/SuperDuper on your shared experience here. This was my original go-to clone software years ago— and they seem to have remembered my registration.
Carbon Copy Cloner works with Ventura. Time machine now only backups the Data volume and not the system.
you can back up and restore an iPad, thats what is meant by clone here, no where in this threads was the assumption to create a bootable clone,
in Catalina your able to back up both USER system and USER directories to restore everything installed (apps etc) as it was with some minor things to verify like iCloud password, etc but its all back and working like an iPad and iphone.
my issue with the comments here is that people are suggesting everyone has to re install applications after restoring from Time Machine or other apps
either do they, I used to clone the whole hard drive and restore it after formatting my computer...since Catalina apple changed everything, now your forced to restore your Macs over the net using recovering mode, then restore the user, now I cant see how this is done with CCC or Time Machine, all the YT videos show is restoring files, not the whole user or system
Keith Barkley wrote:
Time machine is everything-but-OS I believe. CCC should work, I just don't have any experience with it.
so your saying that you cant clone with Time Machine>>>??<<<<
why did apple do this? wont this make a mess if you cant restore system volume library files as well as user's?
If its the case then its not cloning and restoring at all, if anything its simply copying back ups to a drive and you have to re install the OS and your apps one by one.
or did I missunderstand you?
You have never been able to "clone" from Time Machine. It is strictly a backup solution.
It was bootable at one time, but this was not a clone, it had just enough system to do a restore from Time Machine.
Can I clone my drive, erase and restore user and files with Time Machine in Ventura
