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User profile for user: Ben Collier
Ben Collier Author
User level: Level 2
354 points

Editing Midi CC data : 2012 Mac Pro was slow/laggy, 2019 Mac Pro even worse. Poor Coding/Bug?

When editing midi CC data (modulation, volume etc) either in the Piano Roll or in the Arrange window across multiple midi/instrument regions whilst Logic is playing causes LPX 10.7.7 to almost grind to a complete halt and create massive lag with mouse clicks.


I had assumed that 12-core 2012 Mac Pro (Mojave/Logic 10.5.7/64GB RAM with libraries on a 4TB SSD/SATA 3) I was using was showing it's age, but a 2019 Mac Pro (16 core, 192GB RAM, 8TB PCIE audio) that benchmarks (and feels) 2.5 times the speed of the 2012 MP is stuttering and lagging to a halt in the exact same way when editing Midi CC data. Low Latency mode makes no difference to performance or if Pro Tools Studio is also open or not.


I can only assume this is a coding issue as this occurs regardless of the session and what is being routed where. None of the CPU threads are overloading which they did on the 2012 MP, and if I stop playback and continue editing it's marginally smoother though still pretty laggy, region soloing is poor and track solo really bad.


If this is a poor coding or a bug (it's been like this since 10.5.7) then please, could one of the Apple Devs get around to fixing this for 10.7.8? I can't be the only person who uses midi CC heavily and/or has noticed this, and frustratingly 'Logic Pro Feedback...' is no longer an option in the menubar.


Any guidance, workarounds or probably causes would be appreciated :)



Mac Pro (2019)

Posted on Apr 6, 2023 6:42 AM

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User profile for user: yoyoBen
yoyoBen
User level: Level 4
2,747 points

Posted on Apr 14, 2023 7:01 AM

This is really weird. At first I thought maybe you were using certain plugins that were causing latency (pitch and sound-design plugins). But your description leads in another (unknown) direction. Does this happen with a new project, too? What soundcard are you using? Make sure Low Latency Mode is switched off while playback. (But there are a few exceptions, though).


If I'm editing modulation/expression data, or channel Volume automation data either inside midi regions of multiple instances (like pads etc) in the Arrange Window or Piano Roll,

Yes, this is what I'm also doing all the time without any issue.


after the first couple of clicks there is a noticeable lag that begins to kick in.

Strange... Does that mean the automation sounds too late?


From what I've seen I don't get this lag when automating insert plugins like the EQ section in a channel strip or a dry/wet level of a reverb.

It's getting more strange...


I've tried decreasing the buffer from 1024 to 32 samples (Logic is also super clicky/glitchy at 32 samples which I find very odd on this new system)

Lowering the I/O Buffer reduces latency, but increases CPU load. This depends on the use of plug-ins. You have to find the smallest buffer size that let your computer work without glitches. Similar is valid for the Process Buffer Range (!). I've always kept it on Medium. What if you set it to small?


Deleting undo data or having the channels output straight to Output 1-2 rather than their instrument bus doesn't seem to impact this lag so I have no idea what could be causing this.

I also have no idea...


I hope someone else will join that conversation.

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User profile for user: yoyoBen
yoyoBen
User level: Level 4
2,747 points

Apr 14, 2023 7:01 AM in response to Ben Collier

This is really weird. At first I thought maybe you were using certain plugins that were causing latency (pitch and sound-design plugins). But your description leads in another (unknown) direction. Does this happen with a new project, too? What soundcard are you using? Make sure Low Latency Mode is switched off while playback. (But there are a few exceptions, though).


If I'm editing modulation/expression data, or channel Volume automation data either inside midi regions of multiple instances (like pads etc) in the Arrange Window or Piano Roll,

Yes, this is what I'm also doing all the time without any issue.


after the first couple of clicks there is a noticeable lag that begins to kick in.

Strange... Does that mean the automation sounds too late?


From what I've seen I don't get this lag when automating insert plugins like the EQ section in a channel strip or a dry/wet level of a reverb.

It's getting more strange...


I've tried decreasing the buffer from 1024 to 32 samples (Logic is also super clicky/glitchy at 32 samples which I find very odd on this new system)

Lowering the I/O Buffer reduces latency, but increases CPU load. This depends on the use of plug-ins. You have to find the smallest buffer size that let your computer work without glitches. Similar is valid for the Process Buffer Range (!). I've always kept it on Medium. What if you set it to small?


Deleting undo data or having the channels output straight to Output 1-2 rather than their instrument bus doesn't seem to impact this lag so I have no idea what could be causing this.

I also have no idea...


I hope someone else will join that conversation.

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User profile for user: Ben Collier
Ben Collier Author
User level: Level 2
354 points

Apr 14, 2023 5:38 AM in response to yoyoBen

Hi, sorry for the late reply - didn't get notified.


If I'm editing modulation/expression data, or channel Volume automation data either inside midi regions of multiple instances (like pads etc) in the Arrange Window or Piano Roll, after the first couple of clicks there is a noticeable lag that begins to kick in. From what I've seen I don't get this lag when automating insert plugins like the EQ section in a channel strip or a dry/wet level of a reverb. I've tried decreasing the buffer from 1024 to 32 samples (Logic is also super clicky/glitchy at 32 samples which I find very odd on this new system)


Deleting undo data or having the channels output straight to Output 1-2 rather than their instrument bus doesn't seem to impact this lag so I have no idea what could be causing this. If you're not getting this issue then this doesn't look like a coding issue. Could it be routing? Summing is set to High Precision, Process Buffer Range is Large and multithreading is for both Playback and Live Tracks.


Any suggestions for what could be causing this are greatly welcomed.


Ben



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User profile for user: Ben Collier
Ben Collier Author
User level: Level 2
354 points

Apr 14, 2023 9:02 AM in response to yoyoBen

Automation is on the ball so there's no noticeable delay between automation visually and audibly. I really appreciate your input on this one - the lag doesn't seem to be with latency, more as if it's a lag of Logic recognising keyboard/mouse input?


Again, opening a session from cold is ok but it then gets progressively worse. Having a look at the Activity monitor I can't see anything chewing up processing (LPX + Pro Tools open) which was what drew me to the conclusion of something funky in Logic's coding.


I'll keep an eye out to see if there are any other factors that might point to what this bottleneck is.


Thanks again and have a great weekend.

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Editing Midi CC data : 2012 Mac Pro was slow/laggy, 2019 Mac Pro even worse. Poor Coding/Bug?

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