Issue with Proximity Sensor during calls - Continued v2

All I am saying is that it is 9 weeks later and it is still not fixed.

Don't sell blind hope. Use your common sense.

Only person that can fix this is Apple.

I just don't want new users to come here, get sold false hope and get stuck with their phones.

Can you fix it? If not then don't sell false hope.

End rant.

bmwhd1 wrote:
Should have known better than to try to add anything constructive to this conversation. In parting I will say to several of you that keep insisting this is a universal problem with all IP4s - IT IS NOT. I have a large collection of them in support at our office. I have several under test in our beta program as well. Out of all of those - one, exactly one, out of a dozen so far has exhibited the PS problem. Therefore I know it exists. However, the others - zip, zero, nada, never, not once, no problems, period.

I , of course , understidd his joke but i thought may be he was trying to say something more than just joke.. But Thank you for your advise may be I will follow it.

You really do NOT read and watch your own examples . Please you need to go to the details before you make your points.
Here is the video you Recomended :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX7EPVDVEEg

Your comments : " Here is a YouTube video showing a working IP4 and the 'working distance". You simply do not understand the meaning of the video.
Here are the comments of the owner of this video :
" The phone responds inconsistently when the finger is held over it in the exact same place. Sometimes the screen is on, sometimes the screen is off. And it depends on what the proximity sensor was looking at before you move your hand to that position. A properly working sensor should act the same when looking at the same thing "

Even I agree with what the owner noticed but I disagree with his conclusion. The reaction of the sensor suppose to depend on what the sensor was looking before and if you moving object foward or backward from the sensor the reaction is at different distance .There are more factors as well.
I previously called is an algorithm of sensor.

The problem also exists in case when the phone is not hold by the shoulder . But close to the face. Here you again missing this point.

Also you said : " It doesn't need to measure any distance but it could " .
In fact it does measure the distance but with a certain algorithm as I already explained above.

Also the location of the sensor also very important for the working mechanism.

You suggested : "My other point is that if one replaces 4 or 5 and still has problems...most likely, but not 100%, they are trying to get the PS to work in situations that it was not designed for" .
I think they just trying to use the phone as a phone as they used to with all previous phones but they can not. Why would people come to the store 4 times if the phone is working for them . They bought it to use in a first place and they may have a full refund if they want to.
It bring me to the conclusion that they would not make 4 exchanges due to results of their scientific experiments but rather because the issue does not allow them to use their phones.

P.S. Check you videos and comments before you trying to use them as a proof of your points.

I hope Apple solves these issues for individuals outside the 30 day return window. Both my fiancé and I are in the process of returning our iPhone 4s due to the inconsistent proximity sensor. Apple hasn't commented on the time frame of a fix so it would be foolish to continue using the defective phones when they can still be returned. We can always purchase the iPhone again once Apple and their users complete the device's testing phase.

The Outrage wrote:
I hope Apple solves these issues for individuals outside the 30 day return window. Both my fiancé and I are in the process of returning our iPhone 4s due to the inconsistent proximity sensor. Apple hasn't commented on the time frame of a fix so it would be foolish to continue using the defective phones when they can still be returned. We can always purchase the iPhone again _once Apple and their users complete the device's testing phase_.

and isn't that just the irony of this train wreck that is the iPhone 4:
'once apple and their users complete the device's testing phase

Is it only ME and myself that believe no fix is possible? I can see how the software could be patched to allow users to manually switch off the screen, but I don't see a software fix for a hardware problem, and I don't believe in the fantasy that some handsets are just built with faulty components and some are not. That has to be the biggest pile of horsesh!t that has been posted on the thread over the past few days.

I strongly suspect a renewed wave of annoyance and dispare after the conf' of September 1, if no mention is made at all and you're all left looking back into the black hole of the PS issue with no prospect of help.

Let's hope I am wrong for everyone's sanity.

I think it's highly unlikely that the proximity sensor itself or its' placement is the cause of the problem - if it were the fix would be trivial.

It's far more likely that there are some deep rooted operating system issues that manifest themselves as proximity sensor failures, dropped calls, temperature warnings, camera freezes, network dropouts, phone shutdowns, microphone failures, etc.

If so, getting the OS cleaned up imnsho is not going to happen this side of the iPhone5

Ask yourself this, if you knew you might be in a situation where your life depended on being able to make a mobile phone call, which would you rather have - an iPhone4 or an iPhone3 (or last year's nokia, motorola, htc etc)

Or to put it another way, would you rather your lawyer, doctor, surgeon, stockbroker, banker, etc had an iPhone 4 or something 'a little more reliable'

It's simple when you think about it

Goflying wrote:
I think it's highly unlikely that the proximity sensor itself or its' placement is the cause of the problem - if it were the fix would be trivial.

It's far more likely that there are some deep rooted operating system issues that manifest themselves as proximity sensor failures, dropped calls, temperature warnings, camera freezes, network dropouts, phone shutdowns, microphone failures, etc.

If so, getting the OS cleaned up imnsho is not going to happen this side of the iPhone5

Ask yourself this, if you knew you might be in a situation where your life depended on being able to make a mobile phone call, which would you rather have - an iPhone4 or an iPhone3 (or last year's nokia, motorola, htc etc)

Or to put it another way, would you rather your lawyer, doctor, surgeon, stockbroker, banker, etc had an iPhone 4 or something 'a little more reliable'

It's simple when you think about it

Just a small question to understand your opinion.
Looks like , at least we see it is reported by several users , that some units are having worse PS problem than other units. I myself can say it is the case from the phones I tested.
I hope we agree that OS is the same in every unit. In this case what do you think cause the units to have different results and different degree of the PS problem.
Does not it sound that the only difference is a hardware then ?

MichaelEmpire wrote:
You really do NOT read and watch your own examples . Please you need to go to the details before you make your points.
Here is the video you Recomended :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX7EPVDVEEg

Your comments : " Here is a YouTube video showing a working IP4 and the 'working distance". You simply do not understand the meaning of the video.
Here are the comments of the owner of this video :
" The phone responds inconsistently when the finger is held over it in the exact same place. Sometimes the screen is on, sometimes the screen is off. And it depends on what the proximity sensor was looking at before you move your hand to that position. A properly working sensor should act the same when looking at the same thing "

Even I agree with what the owner noticed but I disagree with his conclusion. The reaction of the sensor suppose to depend on what the sensor was looking before and if you moving object foward or backward from the sensor the reaction is at different distance .There are more factors as well.
I previously called is an algorithm of sensor.

The problem also exists in case when the phone is not hold by the shoulder . But close to the face. Here you again missing this point.

Also you said : " It doesn't need to measure any distance but it could " .
In fact it does measure the distance but with a certain algorithm as I already explained above.

Also the location of the sensor also very important for the working mechanism.

You suggested : "My other point is that if one replaces 4 or 5 and still has problems...most likely, but not 100%, they are trying to get the PS to work in situations that it was not designed for" .
I think they just trying to use the phone as a phone as they used to with all previous phones but they can not. Why would people come to the store 4 times if the phone is working for them . They bought it to use in a first place and they may have a full refund if they want to.
It bring me to the conclusion that they would not make 4 exchanges due to results of their scientific experiments but rather because the issue does not allow them to use their phones.

P.S. Check you videos and comments before you trying to use them as a proof of your points.

I see now the root of the problem. You don't really understand the fundamentals of a PS in terms of optoelectronics, sensors or even the algorithm!

That video is very illustrative, but the youtube poster misunderstood his own experiment. This happens far too many times with these videos It is exactly the way a PS should behave. The only dispute is whether you think 1 inch (or 0.75") is too short of a distance. Perhaps it should be 2 inches.

If that is all it is..it could be a sensitivity adjustment or a hardware problem. My IP4 behaves exactly as in the youtube video...and I have NO problems with my phone calls.

But clearly the other youtube video had a real hardware problem; his LED is not functional at all. Everyone can check that out for themselves with a digital camera looking at the PS location.

There is not much more to say about this.

Goflying wrote:
I think it's highly unlikely that the proximity sensor itself or its' placement is the cause of the problem - if it were the fix would be trivial.

Surely the contrary is true. If ir were the placement of the sensor or the sensor itself, the fix is not possible. It only becomes patchable. I think that's what you're gonna see in iOS 4.1, they're delaying the bad news for those who have the problem, and that's all you're gonna get.

It's gonna be fun to watch though - either way it's worth breaking out the popcorn and beer.

As regards dependability, I'd not have a second thought in depending on my iP4. I missed the £GS step, going from 2G to 3G to 4G, so I don't have any real appreciation of how good the 3GS was compared to the 3G and the 4G. But I've not experienced any problems at all with my 4G with the single exception of a compass that is cr@p, but then not having had the 3GS, I'm presuming they are all cr@p and only ever 'guess' at where north is. My iP$ is stunning fast in comparison to my £G, and it's battery life and reception strength are the best so far.

Unfortunately, Otterbox have continued their slide into leaky sh'te cases, and the new Otterbox Defender lets dust in through all the port openings into the cavity between the screen protector and the glass. It's a shame you can't buy decent hardy dustproof cases for iPhones anymore.

I think I do understand the fundamentals how the PS system works and also I understand why Apple made it work this way.

You are absolutely wrong saying that The sensor reacts at the same distance . It does depend on some factors as the owner of the video you brought as example noticed . It does depends if you move the subject forward or you move the subject backward from the system.

Of course if the system did not have the Software behind it and we would deal with the simple wave emission and the receiving the reflected wave you would be correct we would see ( more or less , see bellow explanation ) the trigger on and trigger off at the same distance. But we deal with the process also regulated by the software and the software may influence the trigger on and off and decide the actual action to do.

For example : The software may decide if you getting closer to the sensor to trigger on and turn the light and activate the all display buttons.
But software may decide not to turn it off at all when you move the object from the sensor as mush as you wish. Or may decide to give 2 minutes delay.

Here I see your lack of experience and practical knowledge.

By the way if you try to test the 3GS the scenario is the same . The triggering depends on several factors and not only from one factor the distance.

Just a theoretical thing to add that even we did not have the software logic behind the system the triggering on and off still be at the different distances , it is explained by the semiconductors nature of the PN junction or PIN structure.

And the last thing to add this is not exactly triggering on and off on the physical level of the semiconductor system used. The electric current changes in a certain range gradually even through the open PN junction or PIN structure and the system can also decide what action to take based on the level of the electric current through the sensor.

I told you guys not to feed the trolls.

!http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/9051/trollsbrainandmemoryfd0.gif!

I am really sorry , here I really have to admit I am not the expert at all. Is it and X-ray or MRI of your brain?
Where is your Proximity sensor on the colorful picture of your brain ?
Can you please share the name of the doctor treating you , may be we ask him about the PS .
I hope you have medicinal insurance and the treatment will be completed . Keep us all posted , it is really Apple's fault you have such a complicated influence on your health. I see how difficult it is for you to read technical deatils and make objective comments. You brain can not have such a stress. But if you are still within 30 days may be you should ask for the brain replacement or full refund.
Poor guy.
Stay strong , we are all with you, brother.

Oso Grande wrote:
I told you guys not to feed the trolls.

! http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/9051/trollsbrainandmemoryfd0.gif !

I'm sorry.....It's just so hard.........LOL

MichaelNewYork. OCD.